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The Green Machine This great Nation & Its People War

When the United States Army Went to War Armed with French Weapons by the Angry Staff officer

When the United States Army Went to War Armed with French Weapons

France. What a silly place, am I right? They eat frogs, they’re on their, like, millionth government since the Revolution, and they keep needing us ‘Muricans to save them during world wars. Well, that is one way of viewing the Franco-American narrative, I suppose, if one were to overlook the incredibly vital French aid during the American Revolution (thousands of troops, a Navy, and literally tons of weapons) and all the French thinkers that influenced the Founding Fathers.
And then there’s that little problem of the U.S. Army using mainly French weapons when it entered World War I.
“But ASO, surely it was only a few weapons, right?” the interlocutor might ask. Sure, gentle reader, just a few weapons: just several hundred thousand automatic rifles, machine guns, grenades, artillery pieces, and tanks. That’s all.
“But how could this happen?” the astonished reader asks.
Simple. It’s what happens when you build a small Army – less than 200,000 men – meant for fighting small wars on small islands and entirely neglect modernization.
On April 6, 1917, when the U.S. declared war on Imperial Germany, the U.S. Army had about 200,000 Soldiers on active service, approximately 80,000 of which were National Guardsmen called up for the 1916 Mexican Border Expedition. Getting the Army up to size wasn’t the problem; with authority of the National Defense Act of 1916, the President and Congress could call up the approximately 350,000 Soldiers in the National Guard and institute the draft. No, the problem was how to arm these Soldiers.
Once upon a time – back in the Spanish-American and Civil Wars – this wasn’t too big of an issue. Regular troops were augmented by units of U.S. Volunteers, most of whom were armed by their states or from stores of small arms kept by the Federal government in arsenals across the country. But that was back when war was relatively simple and you could equip infantry units with weapons like the muzzle-loading 1861 Springfield or the 1873 Springfield trapdoor rifle. With 1,000 men to a regiment, it was pretty simple to do the math: 1,000 rifles, some tents, a small wagon train, a blacksmith forge, and travelling kitchens would get you what you needed. Not so in 1917.
The first problem was force structure. The National Defense Act of 1916 had changed the organization of infantry regiments to reflect the changing nature of war: they now had machine guns and automatic rifles. Further, General John Pershing – Commander of the American Expeditionary Forces – added even more weapons to the list in 1917 to increase a regiment’s lethality: Stokes mortars, 37mm light field guns, and grenade launchers affixed to rifles. He also flexed infantry regiments up to a wopping 3,200 men, arranged in three battalions. The infantry regiment formed the core of Pershing’s main functional maneuver element: the division. Each division contained four infantry regiments, three field artillery regiments, three machine gun battalions, one regiment of engineers, and battalions of support troops. Each of these divisions contained 28,000 men. That was a lot of men to equip. Indeed, the first four divisions to arrive in France in the fall of 1917 -the 1st, 26th, 2nd, and 42nd – numbered over 112,000 men; this was over half the size of the Regular Army when war had been declared. There were simply too many men who needed arms and equipment.
The other problem was modernization. The Army was just not ready for the modern age. Their machine-gun was still the 1895 Browning, nicknamed the “potato digger” because its recoil drove it into the ground. The Army’s field guns were still of Spanish-American War vintage. The 1903 Field Gun was actually quite good, but had been stuck in the development stage for nearly two decades. The Browning Company had manufactured a new machine gun and automatic rifle, but there were barely any models of these excellent weapons on hand when war was declared, and it would take over a year for them to actually get pushed to France in any numbers that would matter. The service’s main rifle, the M1903 Springfield, was excellent, but was also lacking in numbers. Facing the daunting task of equipping the first four divisions to head to France, the War Department turned to its allies for help.
Thus it was that the French opened their stores of weaponry and began arming the Doughboys that were arriving in France by the thousands in the fall of 1917. To the regimental machine gun companies and the machine gun battalions went the M1914 Hotchkiss machine gun. The Hotchkiss was gas-actuated and air-cooled, firing an 8mm Lebel  round and had to be crewed by three men, due to its weight and the need to incessantly feed 24-round strips of ammo into the gun. Its weight – 110 pounds with the tripod – caused it to usually be carried around on carts, adding to the difficulty of getting it into battle. However, U.S. machine gun battalions racked up excellent records using the Hotchkiss and even learned how to use them for laying down machine gun barrages.

u-s-_hotchkiss_machine_gun
U.S. troops with the Hotchkiss, 1918. (Library of Congress)

Far less popular than the Hotchkiss was the M1915 Chauchat automatic rifle. Now, the concept of automatic rifles was that there would be one auto rifle squad in each infantry platoon, giving that platoon the ability to lay down some serious suppressive fire. And it was a good concept. The problem lay in the Chauchat. It was slow, heavy, and seemed to jam at the worst possible times. The jams were not usually caused by the weapon itself, but by the magazine’s idiotic design that left half of the side open – open to the ubiquitous mud of the Western Front. Small wonder then that it jammed. However, in the hands of well-trained and meticulous soldiers, the Chauchat could be a force multiplier.

WAR & CONFLICT BOOKERA:  WORLD WAR I/CIVILIANS & REGUGEES
An old French couple, M. and Mme. Baloux of Brieulles-sur-Bar, France, under German occupation for four years, greeting soldiers of the 308th and 166th Infantries upon their arrival during the American advance. (Library of Congress)

Another infantry weapon adopted from the French was the Vivien and Bessières – or V-B in Doughboy parlance – rifle grenade. Fitting to the barrel of a rifle, the grenade was projected by the pressure from the bullet going off in the rifle’s chamber. V-B squads could deliver a barrage of deadly grenades on top of attackers or right before entering an enemy trench. There were, however, issues. The V-B was tooled for the French 8mm round, while the American rifles were 7.62mm. This difference sometimes caused the V-B not to go off because the 7.62mm rounds did not carry enough force. Still, the U.S. didn’t have any  rifle grenades at the outbreak of war, so it was better than nothing.
While the Americans would get their primary field mortar from the British with the Stokes Mortar (a few lucky units got the British Lewis machine gun as well, which was very effective), they got their infantry support gun from the French: the Canon d’Infanterie de 37 modèle 1916 TRP, or simply, the 37mm gun. Doughboys, not quick to be wordy, called them “one pounders.” These small guns were crewed by two men and could be quickly moved around the battlefield to knock out machine gun nests or other medium targets. Some men used them as “sniping guns,” rolling them out into No-Man’s Land, firing off thirty-five rounds in a minute, then limbering up and getting the hell out before the Germans could respond with a murderous barrage. But the 37mm was still not a field gun.

37mm-gun-dieffmatten-19180626.gif
U.S. troops using a 37mm gun near Chateau-Thierry in 1918. (U.S. Army Signal Corps Photo)

Moving from the 37mm to field artillery, the two most striking French gifts to the Americans were the 75mm field piece and the 155mm field piece. The French 75 was possibly one of the most successful field guns of all time. It was deadly accurate and could keep up a high rate of fire due to the pneumatic firing device that absorbed the recoil of the gun and left the barrel sited after every shot. This alleviated the need to re-site the gun after a round was fired. U.S. troops got so proficient with the 75 that they could fire on the recoil, leading to such a high volume of fire that French advisers pulled out their hair in worry and German prisoners demanded to know where the American 75mm machine gun was. The gun even led to its own mixed drink being named for it, the French 75.
Less popular in alcoholic memory, but well-liked by the infantry who followed behind its powerful explosives was the 155mm Schneider howitzer. It provided the heavy type of barrage that Doughboys would need to break a German attack or take apart enemy entrenchments. It was a mix of old and new – pneumatic firing like the 75, but on a rickety gun carriage with wooden wheels that shook and rattled when the gun was fired. The U.S. purchased more than 1,300 of these for the American Expeditionary Force.
Along with the guns came the tanks. One tank in particular: the Renault FT-17. Since at the beginning of the war the U.S. wasn’t even thinking about tanks, they had to borrow the Renault from the French when it came time to think about a Tank Corps. The Renault was small – it could only fit two men: a driver and a commander/gunner. The commander communicated with the driver by kicking him in the head or shoulders, since the tank was so loud that the men couldn’t hear each other. And since the driver couldn’t see anything at all, this type of communication was vital. The U.S. would work on their own tank variant, with supervision by George Patton, but the war would end before it saw action. For more on the Renault, check out this War Stories Podcast.
During the war, the massive U.S. industrial machine would roll into action, turning out millions of small arms, thousands of field guns, and hundreds of tanks. But the fact remains that the first battles fought by U.S. troops in the fall of 1917 and the spring of 1918 were done so with mainly French weaponry, with some from the British. For the most part the equipment was good; but there is no doubt that fewer lives would have been lost had the U.S. fielded the Browning .30 caliber machine gun and Browning Automatic Rifle earlier in the conflict (although loss of life was more to do with poor American strategy and tactics than armaments). This shocking lack of readiness would be seen twenty-four years later, as the U.S. faced the Second World War. While the Army had a massive amount of equipment available, most of it was from the stocks of World War I – and therefore out-of-date. It would take another year and a half before the U.S. Army could begin to bring their weapons on the battlefield in parity against their enemy.
Both of these examples stand as a warning to the current U.S. Army: ignore modernization at your peril, and at the peril of thousands of lives of American service members. Because France can’t always be around to bail us out of trouble.


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About the Author: Angry Staff Officer is an Army engineer officer who is adrift in a sea of doctrine and staff operations and uses writing as a means to retain his sanity. He also collaborates on a podcast with Adin Dobkin entitled War Stories, which examines key moments in the history of warfare.

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The Green Machine War

A Bit of Their Finest Hour!


All I can say is that Lot must of had balls of solid brass! Thank God that they won as I can even think of what would’ve happened if Hitler had won this one!
(This film also showed how confusing Combat can be!)

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Art Born again Cynic! The Green Machine War

The Birth of the Military Term SNAFU! NSFW

https://youtu.be/ZxbFB7myZIw
Of course, at the same time. Sally Lou was boffing some 4-F Jody.  Who was making a sh*t load of money working in the War Industry.
And all the while she was spending his GI allotment. That he was sending her while deployed overseas.
But then I am just a Cynical ex Grunt! Grumpy

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The Green Machine War

A Great hero & Movie – Sgt York

https://youtu.be/LmRRhxo0RHc
It also showed that York had some good officers in his Regiment too!

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Hard Nosed Folks Both Good & Bad Soldiering Stand & Deliver The Green Machine This great Nation & Its People War

Another Stud got what he deserves!!

Shok Valley Medic to Receive Medal of HonorImage result for Army Staff Sgt. Ronald J. Shurer II



A former medic with the 3rd Special Forces Group (Airborne) who heroically fought his way up a mountain to render aid to his Special Forces teammates and their Afghan commando counterparts will receive the Medal of Honor.

Soldier poses with gun on armored vehicle.

Former Army Staff Sgt. Ronald J. Shurer II will receive the Medal of Honor at an Oct. 1, 2018, White House ceremony for going above and beyond the call of duty April 6, 2008, while assigned to Special Operations Task Force 33 in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom. Photo courtesy of Ronald J. Shurer II

 
White House officials announced that former Army Staff Sgt. Ronald J. Shurer II went above and beyond the call of duty April 6, 2008, while assigned to Special Operations Task Force 33 in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom. He will receive the highest military award for valor at a White House ceremony Oct. 1.
In April 2008, Shurer was assigned to support Special Forces operators working to take out high-value targets of the Hezeb Islami al Gulbadin in Shok Valley.
As the team navigated through the valley, a firefight quickly erupted, and a series of insurgent sniper fire, rocket-propelled grenades, and small arms and machine gun fire forced the unit into a defensive fighting position.
Around that time, Shurer received word that their forward assault element was also pinned down at another location, and the forward team had suffered multiple casualties.
With disregard for his safety, Shurer moved quickly through a hail of bullets toward the base of the mountain to reach the pinned-down forward element.
While on the move, Shurer stopped to treat a wounded teammate’s neck injury caused by shrapnel from a recent RPG blast.
Rendering Aid
After providing aid, Shurer spent the next hour fighting across several hundred meters and killing multiple insurgents.
Eventually, Shurer arrived to support the pinned down element and immediately rendered aid to four critically wounded U.S. units and 10 injured commandos until teammates arrived.
Soon after their arrival, Shurer and his team sergeant were shot at the same time. The medic ran 15 meters through a barrage of gunfire to help his sergeant.
Despite a bullet hitting his helmet and a gunshot wound to his arm, Shurer pulled his teammate to cover and rendered care.
Moments later, Shurer moved back through heavy gunfire to help sustain another teammate who had suffered a traumatic amputation of his right leg.
Keeping Enemy at Bay
For the next several hours, Shurer helped keep the large insurgent force at bay while simultaneously providing care to his wounded teammates. Shurer’s actions helped save the lives of all wounded casualties under his care.
Shurer also helped evacuate three critically wounded, teammates down a nearly vertical 60-foot cliff, all while avoiding rounds of enemy gunfire and falling debris caused by numerous airstrikes.
Further, Shurer found a run of nylon webbing and used it to lower casualties while he physically shielded them from falling debris.
Shurer’s Medal of Honor was upgraded from a Silver Star upon review
____________________________________Thank God, that we can still grow such MEN! Grumpy

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All About Guns Hard Nosed Folks Both Good & Bad Leadership of the highest kind Soldiering The Green Machine This great Nation & Its People War

One hell of a LT. !! 1LT Waverly Wray and His M1 Rifle: There Can Be Only One M1 by WILL DABBS

The M1 rifle was used in all theaters of combat during World War II. 1LT Waverly Wray, the airborne officer referenced at the beginning of this article, could be counted among the greatest warriors these United States could produce.

1LT Waverly Wray was born in 1919 and raised in the wooded hills around Batesville, Mississippi, perhaps a forty-five minute drive from where I sit typing these words. An expert woodsman steeped in fieldcraft from his youth, Wray was described by his commander, LTC Ben Vandervoort, thusly, “As experienced and skilled as an Infantry soldier can get and still be alive.” At 250 pounds Wray was an intimidating specimen, yet he was also a committed Christian man of character. He fastidiously eschewed profanity and sent half of his Army paycheck home each month to help build a church in his hometown.
Immediately after jumping into Normandy with the 82d Airborne, 1LT Wray set out on a one-man reconnaissance at the behest of his Battalion Commander. Wray’s mission was to assess the state of German forces planning a counterattack against the weakly held American positions outside Ste.-Mere-Eglise. Wray struck out armed with his M1 rifle, a Colt 1911A1 .45, half a dozen grenades, and a silver-plated .38 revolver tucked into his jump boot. Hearing German voices on the other side of a French hedgerow, Wray burst through the brush and shouted, “Hande Hoch!” Confronting him were eight German officers huddled around a radio.
For a pregnant moment, nobody moved. Then seven pairs of hands went up. The eighth German officer reached for his sidearm. 1LT Wray shot the man between the eyes with his M1.
A pair of German soldiers about 100 meters away opened up on Wray with MP40 submachine guns. 9mm bullets cut through his combat jacket and shot away one of his earlobes. All the while Wray methodically engaged each of the seven remaining Germans as they struggled to escape, reloading his M1 when it ran dry. Once he had killed all eight German officers he dropped into a nearby ditch, took careful aim, and killed the two distant Wehrmacht soldiers with the MP40’s.
Wray fought his way back to his company area to report what he had found, blood soaking his ventilated jump jacket. His first question was to ask where he could replenish his supply of grenades. When American forces eventually took the field where Wray had waged his one-man war against the leadership of the 1st Battalion, 158thGrenadier Regiment, they found all ten German soldiers dead with a single round each to the head. Wray had completely decapitated the enemy battalion’s leadership singlehandedly. Wray stopped what he was doing and saw to it that all ten German soldiers were properly buried. He had killed these men, and he felt a responsibility to bury them properly.
Waverly Wray survived the savage fighting in Normandy only to give his life for his country at Nijmegen, Holland, during Operation Market Garden later in the year. He has a granite marker in Shiloh Cemetery in Batesville, Mississippi, near the church he helped build. 1LT Wray was, by all accounts, an exceptionally good man who died six days before his twenty-fifth birthday. Wray died to ensure the blessings of liberty for further generations of Americans.

John Garand’s Rifle

Those who lived it have told me that there was only one M1 rifle and that it wasn’t called the Garand. The .30-06 rifle we call the Garand was the M1, the M1 Carbine was the Carbine, and the M1A1 Thompson was the Thompson. There was always only one M1.
John Cantius Garand was a Canadian-born gun designer who developed the M1 rifle in the early 1930’s. Those who knew him say that old John Cantius pronounced his name differently from the way we do. In his Canadian dialect, Garand rhymed with “Errand.”
Early versions of the M1 were gas trap designs based upon the flawed presumption that ported barrels would wear appreciably faster than the non-ported sort. This same misconception is what drove the Germans to attempt the ill-fated G41 gas trap rifle before settling on the much more reliable piston-driven G43 design. In short order, the M1 was standardized with the familiar gas piston action.

The M1 rifle soldiered on everywhere during World War II from European plains to fetid South Pacific jungles.

5.4 million of the rifles ultimately rolled out of four wartime factories. The M1 served with distinction in all services and in all theaters throughout World War II as well as the war in Korea. The weapon saw fairly widespread issue among ARVN forces early during the conflict in Vietnam as well. An M1 rifle cost the government about $85 during the Second World War. This equates out to around $1,200 today.

If properly maintained the M1 rifle offered a quantum advance in firepower over the bolt-action designs of the day.

Morphology

For all its justifiable accolades, the M1 was a flawed design. The thing weighs about ten pounds and remains exceptionally bulky, even by the standards of the day. The eight-round en-bloc clip is extremely difficult to fill by hand, and the gun is nearly 44 inches long. Ammunition typically came issued in these disposable spring steel clips. However, early in the war troops frequently had to fill their clips manually from ammo that was packed on single stack five-round Springfield clips, something that was all but impossible to do under pressure.
Despite its few warts, the M1 represented a quantum advance in firepower when compared to the bolt-action repeaters in common service at the time. Interestingly, there are anecdotal accounts of some old school soldiers trading their M1s for bolt-action 1903 Springfields early in the war in the Philippines out of distrust of the autoloading action. However, it did not take long for troops on both sides of the line to come to respect the prodigious firepower of the M1.

Practical Tactical

The M1 rifle was a big, heavy, bulky beast, but it was also reliable, accurate, and rugged. Generations of GIs came to adore the gun.

The M1 sports a unique manual of arms. The safety is a pivoting tab in the front of the trigger guard that soldiers on in modern Springfield Armory M1A rifles today. This design is comparably accessible with either hand. The rigid charging handle reciprocates with the bolt and can be manhandled or even kicked if the action gets gummy.
To put the gun into action you retract the bolt until it locks to the rear automatically. Place a loaded 8-round clip in place in the action and press it down with the thumb until it locks. The bolt will then snap shut of its own accord. One must be fairly quick to snatch the thumb out of the way lest it gets badly pinched. Troops of the day described the resulting painful injury as “M1 Thumb.”

The M1 rifle fed from an 8-round en bloc clip. This means the clip becomes part of the action when loaded into the rifle.

The M1 will fire eight rounds as fast as the trigger can be cycled. On the last round fired the action locks open and the empty clip ejects out the top making a distinctive metallic springing sound in the process. Much hay has been made that this sound might signal to the enemy that the weapon is dry. The World War II combat veterans with whom I have visited discounted this concern. They said this sound was typically lost in the bedlam of battle.

The safety on the M1 is a pivoting tab located in the front of the trigger guard. It is comparably accessible with either hand. The rigid charging handle reciprocates with the bolt.

Denouement

When I was a young buck you could get beautiful M1 rifles through the mail for $165 from the DCM delivered straight to your door. Alas, I didn’t have $165, and the paperwork requirements seemed unduly onerous. I did ultimately land a high-mileage DCM M1 some years later for a good bit more than that. My M1 sports a meticulously repaired crack to the upper handguard and the stigmata of hard use. I love the gun and would not trade it for a specimen that was new in the box. Like Waverly Wray and the other hard men who wielded these old guns to defeat tyranny around the globe, my M1 rifle has character.
A friend who landed on Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944, summed up an Infantryman’s relationship to his primary weapon better than I ever could. He once told me that for nearly a year some part of his anatomy was touching that rifle. Whether he was patrolling, sleeping, shaving, or crapping, he kept that M1 rifle close at hand no matter what.
The M1 is an innately accurate and imminently reliable battle arm. It is not unstoppable, nor does it shoot divinely straight. However, the design certainly earned the respect and legendary status it has gained over the decades. Big, fat, heavy, and mean, the M1 was a gun that quite literally saved the world.
Special thanks to www.worldwarsupply.com for the replica gear used to outfit our period paratrooper.

Technical Specifications

M-1 Garand Rifle
Caliber                            7.62 x 63 mm/.30-06 in
Weight                           9.5 lbs
System of Operation       Gas—Semiautomatic
Length                            43.6 in
Barrel Length                  24 in
Feed                               8 round en bloc steel clips
Sights                             Protected Front Blade and Adjustable Rear Aperture
____________________________________ Some more stuff I found out about this Stud of a man!
Picture of

*DISTINGUISHED SERVICE CROSS Citation:
The President of the United States takes pride in presenting the Distinguished Service Cross (Posthumously) to Waverly W. Wray (0-1030110), First Lieutenant (Infantry), U.S. Army, for extraordinary heroism in connection with military operations against an armed enemy while serving with Company D, 2d Battalion, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, in action against enemy forces on 7 June 1944, in France. While his platoon was engaged in a heavy fight with the enemy, First Lieutenant Wray, completely disregarding his own safety, crawled under devastating machine gun fire and although wounded, fought on until he had destroyed two enemy machine gun positions. Returning to his platoon he reorganized it and, securing a re-supply of ammunition, led it in a successful attack upon the enemy. Only after he had driven the enemy from his platoon sector did he accept first aid for his wounds. First Lieutenant Wray’s valiant leadership, personal bravery and zealous devotion to duty at the cost of his life, exemplify the highest traditions of the military forces of the United States and reflect great credit upon himself, the 82d Airborne Division, and the United States Army.
Headquarters, First U.S. Army, General Orders No. 51 (1944)
*SILVER STAR
Rank: 1st Lieutenant (Lieutenant)
Unit: Executive Officer Company D, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division “All-American”, U.S. Army
Details: Citation unavailable.
*PURPLE HEART
Rank: 1st Lieutenant (Lieutenant)
Unit: Executive Officer Company D, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division “All-American”, U.S. Army
RIDDER VIERDE KLASSE DER MILITAIRE WILLEMS ORDE (MWO.4)
Rank: 1st Lieutenant (Lieutenant)
Unit: Executive Officer Company D, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division “All-American”, U.S. Army
Awarded on: October 8th, 1945
Action: For having distinguished himself during the fighting by the 82nd Airborne Division in the area around Nijmegen between September 17th and October 4th 1944 by having performed outstanding deeds of courage, tact and loyalty and having repeatedly displayed outstanding devotion to duty and great perseverance and in all respects having set a praiseworthy example to all in those illustrious days during which he lost his life.
Details: Royal decree no.31 Awarded posthumously.

Categories
All About Guns The Green Machine

Here's What Soldiers Think of the U.S. Army's Brand New Handgun


Typical US Army propaganda! Also what in the Hell is with the crappy computer voice too! But let us move on.
For example  -Like the Army is really going let some Trooper (E-1 thru E-4) sound off about this gun. Even if its the best handgun ever made. You will be told in no uncertain terms on what to say about it.
Because nobody in their right mind, Is going to play the game of “Telling the Truth to Power”  in the US or any other Army out there for that matter.
Especially when some of the really scary Folks in charge of you are involved.
For example. I had a Squadron Command Sgt Major. Who had gone to the Vietnam War several times. But was finally told that he could not go again. Because he was “enjoying” it too much!
Another time I looked at his fruit salad, when he wasn’t looking.
It was the first time I had ever seen somebody with a Combat Infantry badge,  D.S.C., Silver Star, Bronze Star with V for valor, a Purple Heart with a mess of palms & stars and a bunch of Foreign Decorations that I couldn’t ID. Even the Squadron Commander was slightly scared of him.
Bottom line – Folks you will have to trust me on this one. As I have met & worked with some really tough & scary Folks while I was in the Army.
But if you really want to find out about anything in the Army. Then go to the Officers Club at the end of of a hard day. Or the NCO Club and stand for a couple of rounds. Then you will get the truth about any almost any subject.

Categories
All About Guns The Green Machine

I see that I am not alone about the issue of US Army Rifle calibers

THOUGHTS ON SERVICE WEAPONS

Another day of Doctors  sawing bones ,and leech treatments today.   But thankfully Mack, has written a guest post for today on his idea on US service  rifles.
Some of you will recognize Mack as he was a regular commentor at weapons man and here.  I have invited him to be a regular guest for our site and therefore giving me more chance to be lazy.

The A-7F Strike Fighter II was a multi role carrier capable high sub-sonic war plane that was relatively cheap that worked and was flown in some variant by the Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps. After the First Gulf War, it was ingloriously sent to the bone yard in Arizona.
The A-7F was everything the F-35 wants to be but better and cheaper. The F-35 project is about like the damn M-17/ P320. This is what I am afraid will happen with the Army trying to adopt a new 7.62 platform.
First off, all the Camp Perry and M-14 fanboys can chill in that the solicitation as currently available to the public is for new DMR platforms only.
So no, Cletus, the Army is not giving every soldier a 7.62 battle rifle. Sorry about it, go put another coat of varnish on your M1A.
I will not dispute issues of lethality with the M-4/ 5.56; however, I will proudly stand by the rifle and the round when used with effective ammunition at realistic ranges.
Whatever genius in the ordnance corps thought the M855 was a good man stopper out of a carbine, is probably the grandson of the fella that thought the AEF shouldn’t use a Lewis gun.
Iraq for the most part was an urban war. Afghanistan was fought in the valleys and the mountains. For the most part, the M-4 did okay in both of these.
However, a good case can be made in Afghanistan particularly, that the American soldier or Marine could have been better served by more 7.62 rifle, key word rifle, platforms.
However, this in my opinion, is specific to the war in Afghanistan. Begrudgingly, I will admit, the Marine Corp seems to be on the right track with the M-27.
That gives more fire power and accuracy to the individual fire team. I believe something like the Navy’s Mk 13 issued to the fire team level is what the Army should go with. However, since it is both a Navy specific platform and not new, I highly doubt the Department of the Army will go with it because it makes too much sense.
There are undoubtedly times when a 7.62 is needed, but with apologies to MG Scales, the United States Army is not being out ranged in Afghanistan by illiterate goat farmers with Mosin Nagants.
For whatever reason, the US Army is infatuated with the myth of SGT York stopping the Germans with accurate rifle fire at 1000 yards. That is all well and good, but the damn training doesn’t even live up to that myth, much less the equipment.
The US Army would be better served to half the amount of don’t drive drunk and don’t sexually harass power points in favor of more realistic range time that isn’t done on a square range shooting at paper targets.
And of course, after great fan fare, the request for a new 7.62mm platform was quietly dropped. And now the Army is looking for a new sub gun. Which makes sense to an extent. But not really.
If I were allowed to select the Army’s new crop of personal weapons, we would see a Glock 19 as a sidearm. And multiple uppers for the M-4. A .300 BLK for PDW/suppressed awesome, the standard M-4 style 5.56mm upper, and a heavy barreled SDM platform. Modularity for days.
If the U.S. military could supply six calibers to far flung fronts across the world in World War II, they can certainly bear the burden of supplying .300 BLACK OUT to the guys in the Sandbox.
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All About Guns The Green Machine

The Chosen One: The Army’s M-17 Pistol Review by MARK MILLER

The SIG M-17 pistol is serving in combat with the US Army. The story has a happy ending, but it took years and millions of rounds to get there.
The competition for the Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) contract was one of the most rigorous and highly competitive review processes in the history of military firearms. It was scrutinized and contested and endlessly questioned.
SIG submitted a P320-based platform. The only true modular candidate, SIG’s XM-17 performed well during the selection under all conditions the Army could dream up. After over two million rounds of testing, the XM-17 became the M-17 and a new icon was born.
The service handguns chosen by the Army have always become essential weapons; the Remington New Army, the Colt Single Action Army, Browning’s M-1911 and the M-9 Beretta are all classics. Now you can get the latest chapter in this historic line.
Other manufacturers have been selling their versions of the MHS while SIG has been busy making guns for the Army.
Every branch of the military has adopted the M-17 and the smaller version, the M-18. At last, Sig has sent the military enough guns that they can make some M-17s for the rest of us. There are two civilian versions, The M17 Commemorative and the P320-M17 and they are on their way to an FFL near you.

P320-M17

The P320-M17 closely follows the specifications of the U.S. Army’s M17. The P320-M17 features a coyote-tan carry-length grip module available in three sizes and comes standard with a manual safety. Non-manual safety P320-M17 pistols will be shipped at a later date. There is a coyote-tan PVD coated stainless steel slide and black controls just like the pistols currently being shipped to the U.S. Army. The sights are a SIGLITE front night sight and removable Night Sight rear plate.
Many internet experts, who have never touched an M-17, believe that the small arms professionals in the Army, the Navy, the Marines, the Air Force, and the Coast Guard have gone through millions of rounds of extensive testing and picked the wrong gun.
After my own limited test firing, just over three thousand rounds through the M-17 and the 320-M17, the M-17 is my choice too and I believe that the army chose the best gun for the job.

The P320-M17 easily clangs the CTS steel targets at 50 yards. At the Academy we shot steel out to 75 yards.

The P320-M17 Specs:

Total length: 8″
Barrel length: 4.7″
Weight (incl. magazine): 29.6 oz.
Height: 5.5″
Width: 1.3″
Sight radius: 6.6″
MSRP: $768.00
I got a 320-M17 a month ago. I have taken it to classes as a student and an instructor. I have shot thousands of rounds of ball and hollow points with no issues and no cleaning. I have lubricated it and I will probably clean it when it gets dirty. This is not a torture test; the gun just isn’t dirty enough to require cleaning yet.

The P320-M17 comes with two 17 round magazines

I had the opportunity to travel to New Hampshire to visit the SIG SAUER factory. The technology is highly automated with multiple quality checks. I got to walk the production floor and see every step of the process from machining to assembly. Trained professionals assemble guns and reject any component which isn’t perfect, but that is only half the story.
There is a quality plan for each part which dictates how many parts from each lot are checked at special robot laser verification stations which check every angle of a part. These check stations are connected to each of the automated CMC machines and automatically update the instructions to the machines, in real time.
Problems are anticipated and avoided. This reduces bad parts, keeps them out of the supply chain and cuts costs so SIG can make better and less expensive guns. They test fire every gun and I got to witness the process while I was there.
I also got to go to the SIG Academy and shoot the 320-M17 for a day under strict the tutelage of a couple of former Special Forces operators (one who is still active) on their staff. I shot 400+ rounds of SIG FMJ ammunition at paper and steel targets.
We ran the guns hard and shot them hot. We worked up to multiple target drills and shooting a scenario in and around cars and barricades. The guns got hot and dirty and they all ran.
The M17 has a great trigger and good sights; I can’t tell a difference in performance or feel between the M-17 and the P320-M17. The contract specification for the M-17 was shooting a ten round four-inch group at 35 yards with crappy ball ammo which it will do all day.
The civilian versions of the M-17 are just as accurate and fun to shoot. I have used a variety of heavy and light bullets in full metal jacket and hollow points. The 320-M17 fed them all.

The P320-M17 was reliable and accurate with ball ammo

The feel and the grip angle are like the rest of the P-320 family. The manual safety is ambidextrous and placed so that the thumb rides on it naturally when you assume a firing grip. The ambidextrous slide lock sits right in front of the safety. It takes a little getting used to, but it is ergonomic and easy to use.
There is some debate about external safeties. The MHS requirements specified a safety and the M-17 delivered. The M-1911 had a well-placed safety, the M-17 is better, inspired by competition modified civilian 1911s.
There are a lot of things soldiers do, like individual movement techniques (Google it), which are fundamentally different than police or civilian applications. Military guns get banged and dropped and abused. Some soldiers jump out of airplanes wearing them.
With training, a manual safety is no slower and provides an extra layer of protection. Nobody wants to get shot doing a PLF (Parachute Landing Fall).

Speed drills at 15 yards were no problem for the P320-M17

The P320-M17 groups well at 15 and 25 yards.

The P320-M17 comes apart like any other SIG P-320. The original specifications for the XM-17 required a special tool to remove the takedown lever. This requirement was changed and now both the Army M-17s and the civilian variants have the same removable takedown lever as the P-320. The military M-17 and the Commemorative require a special tool to disassemble the slide. The trigger modules have the serial number and are completely removable.

The P320-M17 slide markings

The Commemorative

The M17 Commemorative pistol shares the same components, coatings, and markings as the original pistol that was awarded the U.S. Army contract for the modular handgun system (MHS).
Just like the military M-17, the Commemorative comes with a coyote-tan carry-length grip module and a coyote-tan PVD coated stainless steel slide. The Commemorative has coyote-tan colored controls just like the original pistols shipped to the 101st Airborne.

The Commemorative is an exact replica of the first M17s the military got. SIG has made 5,000 available to the public. It even ships in the same cardboard box that the military gets it in.

As a side note, SIG is no longer offering the coyote-tan colored controls, even for the military. So the civilian version of the M17 looks just like what the military is currently getting.
The pistol features a SIGLITE front night sight and removable Night Sight rear plate with the same optic cut as specified by the MHS contract. It comes with two 21-round magazines, one 17-round magazine and a manual safety.
Only 5,000 M17-Commemorative Edition pistols have been produced. Each one carries a unique identifier (UID) just like the Army guns. From the pistol to the same cardboard packaging as delivered to the U.S. Army, the M17-Commemorative Edition is identical to the U.S. Army’s official M-17 service pistol.
Register your M17-Commemorative and you get an official certificate of authenticity and a commemorative challenge coin, both with serial numbers matching your M17-Commemorative pistol.
To complement these guns, an M17 Collector’s Case is available separately at sigsauer.com/store.  The case is a solid cherry box, with dark mahogany stain, a tempered glass top, a brushed nickel latch and a keyhole back for optional wall-hanging.
The M17 Collector’s Case features a slate-grey flocked foam insert with an affixed U.S. Army logo, and precision laser placement cuts for the pistol, certificate and Official Challenge Coin.

M17 Commemorative pistol in optional M17 Collector’s Case

M17 Collectors Case MSRP: $199.99 (sold separately at sigsauer.com/store)

The M17-Commemorative Specs:

Total length: 8″
Barrel length: 4.7″
Weight (including 17rd magazine): 29.6 oz
Height: 5.5″
Width: 1.3″
Sight radius: 6.6″
MSRP M17-Commemorative Edition Pistol: $1,122.00
 
For more information on the SIG M17 visit SIG by clicking Here. 
____________________________
My own uninformed opinion about this pistol. Is that it does not have an exposed hammer. Which could tell somebody if the weapon could be cocked and ready to go or not.
Since  anybody who has been around guns and human beings knows from experience. There are going to be some idiot who is going to have the gun loaded and ready to go. just like on the TV or cell Phone now.
Which will lead to an “accidental” discharge & hopefully nobody getting hurt. But we know that in the real world somebody is going to get hurt.
Just saying!- Grumpy

Categories
The Green Machine

Army Hair Throughout the Ages

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It was Ben Franklin who wrote, “He who neglects his hair neglects his country.”
Well, all right, he never did say that but he would’ve had he thought of it, because Ben understood the importance of a well put together coiffe of hair.
The military has undergone some variations on its way of thinking about hair for men. Back in the early days, it was cool to have long hair. Hell, if you didn’t want to have long hair you’d have to get a wig!
And for those who couldn’t afford the fancy up-dos, there was always the fallback of bear grease and flour to rub through your locks. Might not smell the best – and it would attract flies – but damn if you didn’t look dashing.

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Dope hair makes dragoons cry. Fact.

Then came the 1800s and the glorious manes disappeared, replaced by as many sideburns as you could pack on your face without allowing them to develop into actual facial hair. It was a pretty good time as men’s hair goes – lots of flow.

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“Check out this chill ass map, brah”

Except for maybe young U.S. Grant and his…whatever it is that he had going on there.

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Is this a..half mullet? A hullet?

By the time the Civil War hit, however, it was all beards, all the time. The more beards, the better. Stack beards on beards, the masses said, and the generals on both sides obliged.
Ambrose Burnside went one better and connected his whole face with sideburns, a look that left little in the way of confidence in his abilities.
The man appeared to have gone into hiding and was peering out behind the bushes, which is perhaps why he failed so miserably at Fredericksburg: he simply couldn’t see what was going on.

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Never go full sideburn defilade.

Alpheus William’s mustache was always trying to get away, so he nailed it down so as to have it with him always.

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“Quick, boys, seize the shoulders!”

Most didn’t seem to care too much what was going on up top – both in the hair situation and the brain department, as it would turn out.
By the time we get to 1898 and the Army’s foray into making war in places where the climate will kill you faster than the natives, most of the beards have vanished. A few holdovers can be seen, all exclusively sported by Civil War veterans who refused to realize that 50 years of military service doesn’t mean you’re a genius – it means you’re ancient as hell and need to retire.
The de rigueur hair style at this point becomes the mustache. It was as if President McKinley had called for a wall of mustaches to face off against the Spanish, for they sprouted from every field grade and general officer’s face faster than disease spread through the troops stationed in Cuba.

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Mustaches for dayssssss…except for General Beardy McBeardface Wheeler.

World War I saw the complete and final death of the beard for the majority of all troops, for the simple reason that if you had a beard – well, you were gonna die because your gas mask wouldn’t seal. That said, the ‘stache refused to go away and reigned supreme on the Western Front. It was paired with a short, cropped haircut.
Why? Because while the ladies love glorious flowing locks, so do lice. And the ratio of lice to available women in the trenches was pretty much 1 billion to one, so off the hair went.
Clean cut, mustached, with nice high collars that made it difficult to look from side to side, the officers of 1918 cut a dashing figure. Well, you know, the ones that weren’t covered in mud.

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Unless you were at GHQ, in which case, no mud for you.

By World War II, Army officers had caved to the popular pressure of what a soldier should apparently look like: shaven, with a cropped haircut that was usually some variation of a fade or cropped top.
Boring ol’ hairstyles, and yet the owners did some damn fine work. Of course, in the frost of the Ardennes or the humid jungles of New Guinea, the niceties of grooming faded into the background. And in sustained combat, the beards came back – although never officially.

WWII
And some people decided to go for Mohawks. There’s always one.

Following World War II, Army hair got all regulated and whatnot. The current regulation, AR 670-1, is pretty vague about the limitations on male haircuts, as long as they are well-groomed and present a neat and orderly appearance.
Naturally, there’s all sorts of disparities when it comes to officers of today and their hair style of choice.
You’ve got the highly motivated ones with high and tights, who you look askance at and ask them why they didn’t go join the Marine Corps and get it over with.
Then there’s the “my entire personality is the Army which is why my haircut is so bland and buzzed” type. Of course aviators have the “I woke up like this” hair, which takes the meaning of good order and discipline to the limit.
And then you’ve got the younger generation of officers – myself included – who believe that “Yes, Virginia, you can be an Army officer and have good hair.” With trimmed sides and a comb-able top that falls within Army regs – yet still causes sergeants major to go into fits – we are reclaiming the heritage of Army hair.

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Captain Swenson’s hair is just…perfect.