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Being a Stranger in a very Strange Land Born again Cynic! Grumpy's hall of Shame

Just another reason on why I am SO Grateful to be a RETIRED Teacher!

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All About Guns Born again Cynic! Dear Grumpy Advice on Teaching in Today's Classroom Grumpy's hall of Shame

One of the Few Rifles from Winchester that led me astray.

Okay here goes about my tale of woe. One day not so long ago, I went to one of my favorite gun shops that will remain nameless to protect the innocent.
Where I spied this Old Timer coming out of the back room. Having always wanting one since I read about them from Townsend Whelen’s writings & his high opinion about them.

Needless to say. I went into hyper lust and just had to have it asap!!!

  Anyways after a long and in terminal wait it seemed for me. I finally was able to buy it. Where upon things began a quick spiral to that very warm spot that all believers know and fear. The local Rifle range.
  Where I had set my bench rig and proceeded to load this puppy up and try to hit the elusive X ring. As I expect, you can guess the results.
  In that never even broke paper! So let us review things. Open up the action and line up the action with the target. Check! Then check the scope sight picture, hey it’s good to go!
  So let us give it the Old College try again. Again No Joy today! So off we go to Ye Old Gunsmith. Who in his good old time renders his verdict.
  It seems that you own a well put together parts gun. That has a badly bored barrel and it is no wonder that you could not hit the broad side of the ocean.  This statement was then followed by a series of Anglo Saxon Oaths and other adult terminology. Care to guess who?
  So it was off to my fine Sponsors at Lock Stock & Barrel. Where for one of the few times. I did not at least break even. All I can say is that I hope that this rifle serves its new Master better than it did for me.
The Bottom Line Lessons for me at least. Do not let your Twins overwhelm you when it comes to buying your “Dream Rifle”. (Yeah Right!) That and let a trusted and disinterested person look at it before peeling out the cash! There is more but I am getting lazy! Grumpy

Winchester - Model 1885 Low Wall, Blue Round 25 ¾” Falling Block Single Shot Varmint Rifle, MFD 1903 C&R - Picture 5
Winchester - Model 1885 Low Wall, Blue Round 25 ¾” Falling Block Single Shot Varmint Rifle, MFD 1903 C&R - Picture 6
Winchester - Model 1885 Low Wall, Blue Round 25 ¾” Falling Block Single Shot Varmint Rifle, MFD 1903 C&R - Picture 7
Winchester - Model 1885 Low Wall, Blue Round 25 ¾” Falling Block Single Shot Varmint Rifle, MFD 1903 C&R - Picture 8
Winchester - Model 1885 Low Wall, Blue Round 25 ¾” Falling Block Single Shot Varmint Rifle, MFD 1903 C&R - Picture 9
Winchester - Model 1885 Low Wall, Blue Round 25 ¾” Falling Block Single Shot Varmint Rifle, MFD 1903 C&R - Picture 10

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Grumpy's hall of Shame Related Topics

Problems at the NRA

NRA money flowed to board members amid allegedly lavish spending

A former pro football player who serves on the National Rifle Association board was paid $US400,000 ($NZ600,953) by the US lobby group in recent years for public outreach and firearms training.

Another board member, a writer in New Mexico, collected more than $US28,000 for articles in NRA publications. Yet another board member sold ammunition from his private company to the NRA for an undisclosed sum.

The NRA, which has been rocked by allegations of exorbitant spending by top executives, also directed money in recent years to members of its board – the very people tasked with overseeing the organisation’s finances.

In all, 18 members of the NRA’s 76-member board, who are not paid as directors, collected money from the group in the past three years, according to tax filings, state charitable reports and NRA correspondence reviewed by The Washington Post

The payments received by about one-quarter of board members, the extent of which has not previously been reported, deepen questions about the rigour of the board’s oversight as it steered America’s largest and most powerful gun rights group, according to tax experts and some longtime

The NRA, founded in 1871 to promote gun safety and training, relies heavily on its 5 million members for dues. Some supporters are rebelling publicly and questioning its leadership.

“I will be the first person to get in your face about defending the Second Amendment, but I will not defend corruption and cronyism and fearmongering,” said Vanessa Ross, a Philadelphia-area bakery owner and lifetime NRA member who previously worked at the Virginia headquarters managing a programme for disabled shooters.

US President Donald Trump with NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre in April.
MICHAEL CONROY/AP
US President Donald Trump with NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre in April.

Among the revelations that have burst into public view: CEO Wayne LaPierre racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in charges at a Beverly Hills clothing boutique and on foreign travel, invoices show.

Oliver North, forced out as president after trying to oust LaPierre, was set to collect millions of dollars in a deal with the NRA’s now-estranged public relations agency, Ackerman McQueen, according to LaPierre.

And the NRA’s outside attorney reaped “extraordinary” legal fees that totalled millions of dollars in the past year, according to North.

The duelling allegations, coupled with multimillion-dollar shortfalls in recent years and an ongoing investigation by the New York attorney general, threaten the potency of the NRA, long a political juggernaut and a close ally of President Donald Trump.

The NRA said that its finances are healthy and that the allegations of misspending are unfounded. In a statement last month, a dozen board members said they have “full confidence in the NRA’s accounting practices and commitment to good governance”. LaPierre declined to comment.

The gun rights organisation’s board includes firearms industry executives, conservative leaders, gun enthusiasts, and a handful of sports and entertainment celebrities.

Among its members, whose names are not listed on the NRA website, are former Republican Representative Bob Barr, former NBA star Karl Malone and Joe Allbaugh, who served as the director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the George W. Bush administration. (The three are not among the directors the NRA reported paying.)

Some longtime NRA members are losing faith in its leadership - and considering walking away.
DANIEL ACKER
Some longtime NRA members are losing faith in its leadership – and considering walking away.

After learning about the money his fellow board members received, Malone said he was concerned.

“If these allegations are correct and 18 board members received pay, you’re damn right I am,” he said. “If it’s correct, the members who pay their dues should be damn concerned, too.”

The NRA does not require board members to donate or raise funds for the group, as many nonprofit organisations do. They do not have term limits.

State and federal laws allow members of nonprofit boards to do business with their organisations under certain guidelines. The IRS can impose penalties if top officials and their families receive economic benefits that exceed fair market value.

Tax experts said the numerous payments to certain NRA directors create potential conflicts of interest that could cloud the board’s independent monitoring of the organisation’s finances.

“In 25 years of working in this field, I have never seen a pattern like this,” said Douglas Varley, a Washington attorney at Caplin & Drysdale who specialises in tax-exempt organisations and reviewed the NRA’s federal and state filings from 2016 through 2018 for The Washington Post.

“The volume of transactions with insiders and affiliates of insiders is really astonishing.”

Varley said he did not see any apparent violations of the law, and noted that the NRA, for the most part, appeared to have properly disclosed the payments.

“But the pattern raises a threshold question of who the organisation is serving,” he said. “Is it being run for the benefit of the gun owners in the country and the public? Or is it being run as a business-generating enterprise for officers and employees of the organisation?”

NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said the number of financial relationships between directors and the NRA is “small”, considering the size of the board and the organisation.

LaPierre racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in charges at a Beverly Hills clothing boutique and on foreign travel, invoices show.
MICHAEL CONROY/AP
LaPierre racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in charges at a Beverly Hills clothing boutique and on foreign travel, invoices show.

He called the gun rights movement “a close-knit community comprised of partners and vendors who understand the issue and are defenders of the Second Amendment”.

Because gun-control groups have pressured companies into not doing business with the NRA, Arulanandam said, “the pool becomes smaller. Therefore, connections between employees or board members and partners are not unusual.”

William Brewer, an outside attorney for the NRA, said business arrangements with directors are approved “where appropriate” by the board’s audit committee.

“Naturally, there are occasions where the NRA engages vendors who have a connection to NRA executives, employees or board members – but only when such an association works in the best interest of the organisation and its members,” he said.

The NRA provided The Post with a copy of its conflict-of-interest policy, which states that approval by the audit committee is not required for minor transactions, reimbursement of expenses or “transactions and activities undertaken in the ordinary course of business by NRA staff”.

According to the policy, board members “owe a duty of loyalty to the NRA and must act in good faith and in the NRA’s best interests rather than in their own interests or the interests of another entity or person”.

Board members who spoke to The Post defended their ability to serve as fiscal watchdogs while collecting fees.

Former NRA President David Keene, who has been paid $US112,000 by the group for public speaking and consulting since 2017, said he has “never hesitated to exercise the oversight required of a board member and would gladly give up any compensation if I thought for a minute it was compromising my judgment or responsibility”.

Oliver North was forced out as NRA president after trying to oust LaPierre.
MICHAEL CONROY/AP
Oliver North was forced out as NRA president after trying to oust LaPierre.

“NRA board members as a group tend to be both forthright and bullheaded, so I cannot imagine any of them would let a few dollars affect their judgment,” he added.

SHOWDOWN IN INDIANAPOLIS

In late April, the NRA’s annual meeting was getting underway in Indianapolis when members of the board received an alarming letter from LaPierre, who has run the gun lobby for decades.

In it, he wrote that North had warned that the group’s longtime public relations firm, Ackerman McQueen, was going to release information alleging “a devastating account of our financial status”. LaPierre said North indicated that the missive would not be sent if LaPierre resigned.

The NRA chief hinted that North was compromised – conflicted between his duties to the board and his personal financial interests, noting that the retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel had signed a contract with Ackerman to host an NRA documentary series for “millions of dollars annually”.

“I believe our Board and devoted members will see this for what it is: a threat meant to intimidate and divide us,” LaPierre concluded.

The next day, North was forced to resign. But in a parting letter, he warned that the organisation’s finances were in “clear crisis.”

The board sided with LaPierre, reelecting him unanimously, according to NRA officials.

“We have full confidence in Wayne LaPierre and the work he’s doing in support of the NRA and its members,” said Carolyn Meadows, who replaced North as president.

Attorneys for North declined to comment.

Since then, the NRA has faced a steady drip of allegations about improper spending.

AR-15 rifles on display at the NRA's annual meeting in May 2016.
LUKE SHARRETT/BLOOMBERG
AR-15 rifles on display at the NRA’s annual meeting in May 2016.

Letters from Ackerman’s CFO to LaPierre, first reported by The Wall Street Journal and obtained by The Post, detailed large expenses billed by LaPierre, including nearly $US275,000 in personal charges at a Beverly Hills men’s store and more than $US253,000 in luxury travel to locations such as Italy, Budapest and the Bahamas. Bills also show $US13,800 to rent an apartment for a summer intern.

In another letter, North warned top officials that huge fees charged by the Brewer law firm – which he said appeared to total $US24 million in the previous 13 months – were “draining NRA cash at mind-boggling speed”. Brewer is the son-in-law of Angus McQueen, the CEO of the NRA’s longtime ad firm.

In the wake of the revelations, Retired Army Lieutenant Colonel Allen West, a former Republican congressman from Florida and two-term NRA board member, called for LaPierre to resign, describing “a cabal of cronyism”.

NRA officials said that LaPierre’s wardrobe allowance began 15 years ago and that he was urged by Ackerman to make the purchases for his public appearances, a practice that they said has since been discontinued. They said his travel was necessary for fundraising. The apartment was secured for a three-month summer internship when university housing typically used was unavailable, the NRA said.

NRA officials also said North’s memo describing the legal fees paid to the Brewer firm was “inaccurate”.

“It reflects a misinformed view of the firm, its billings, and its advocacy for the NRA,” said Charles Cotton, chairman of the NRA’s audit committee. “The board supports the work the firm is doing.” Brewer did not respond to a request for comment on his fees.

The swirl of allegations is being driven by the NRA’s increasingly acrimonious split from Ackerman, an Oklahoma-based firm that, with affiliated companies, received about $US40m from the nonprofit group in 2017, according to tax filings.

Ackerman has produced provocative ads and television shows that increasingly marked a departure from the NRA’s traditional focus on gun rights.

The gun lobby and the PR agency have sued each other in recent months, accusing each other of improper billing and deceit.

In a statement, Ackerman said it “followed the explicit directions” of NRA officials. The company said the NRA conducted an audit of its payments nearly every year and can justify all of its billings. “They could challenge any invoice, but they did not,” the company said.

The NRA has accused Ackerman of concealing records, which the firm denies, and breaching confidentiality by leaking information.

The feud comes amid an investigation by New York Attorney General Letitia James, a Democrat, into the tax-exempt status of the organisation, which is chartered in New York. As part of the probe, her office has issued subpoenas to the NRA, as well as orders to NRA entities and vendors to preserve records, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Brewer, the NRA’s outside attorney, said the group complies with all regulations and is cooperating with the inquiry. “The NRA is prepared for this, and has full confidence in its accounting practices and commitment to good governance,” he said.

Amid the turmoil, much of the NRA board has remained silent – or defended LaPierre’s spending.

“This is stale news – being recycled by those with personal agendas. In any event, the entire board is fully aware of these issues,” Meadows said in a statement.

The organisation has not hired an outside firm to conduct an investigation into the allegations of misspending, a measure that legal experts note is often taken by nonprofit boards in such situations. Brewer said NRA practices are already under “constant review” by top officials and the board.

Instead, NRA leaders say gun-control advocates are ginning up the controversies to sabotage the organisation. “Our financial house is in order – we aren’t going away,” read a May 22 letter to members signed by Meadows and 11 other board members, many of them former presidents of the organisation.

But some longtime NRA members are losing faith in the leadership – and considering walking away.

“You have these facts coming to light, what to most NRA members seem very unreasonable amounts spent on luxuries and conveniences,” said NRA member and firearms trainer Robert Pincus of Florida.

“And at the same time you have the NRA cold-calling and fundraising, claiming they are going to go bankrupt if they don’t get money to fight New York state,” Pincus said.

“Then you have the [new] president saying they are in great financial shape, all the financial problems of the past have been fixed. Those three messages don’t all go together.”

‘NOTHING NEFARIOUS ABOUT IT’

Federal and state filings show that the NRA has turned to its board members for a variety of paid services in the past three years – including to bring in new members.

Attorneys who specialise in nonprofit organisations said it is unusual for board members to be paid membership commissions for recruitment.

“Most groups lean on board members to give money, not for board members to get money,” said New York lawyer Daniel Kurtz. “I think the contributing public would look at that with a dim eye.”

Among those paid such commissions was board member Owen Mills, who runs Gunsite Academy, an Arizona firearms training facility, which received about $US11,000 in 2016 and 2017.

Mills defended the financial ties between board members and the NRA, saying they should be able to do business with the group as long as their prices are competitive.

“There’s nothing nefarious about it,” Mills said. “The NRA buys a lot of stuff. And so it wouldn’t be unusual to do business with your board members, and all of that is open to the public process.”

Since 2016, large sums have flowed to board members for consulting, public filings show. NRA officials provided additional details about the specifics of some of the work they did.

Lance Olson, a former police officer from Iowa, received a total of $US255,000 for outreach to gun collectors and fundraising, and Dave Butz, a former NFL player, received $US400,000 for public outreach and firearms training, according to the NRA.

Olson did not respond to requests for comment. Butz, who was not reelected to the board in April, declined to comment.

A firm run by White House communications aide Mercedes Schlapp, who resigned from the board when she joined the administration in 2017, received a total of $US85,000 in 2016 and 2017 for media strategy consulting.

She did not respond to requests for comment. Schlapp’s ability to represent the organisation in Spanish-language media “made her firm highly qualified”, the NRA said.

Longtime director and former NRA President Marion Hammer received at least $US610,000 in the past three years for consulting services and legislative lobbying in Florida. Hammer declined to comment.

In a statement, the group called her a “tireless supporter of the NRA’s fight to protect the Second Amendment”.

Director Bart Skelton, a writer in New Mexico, received at least $US28,750 over three years to produce articles for NRA publications and $US6550 in compensation in 2017. He did not respond to requests for comment.

NRA director and rock performer Ted Nugent’s company received $US50,000 for appearances at the 2016 NRA convention, while director and country music singer Craig Morgan’s company got $US23,500 for musical performances.

Neither responded to requests for comment.

CONTRACT ‘VETTED’

In other cases, the NRA paid businesses run by members of its board.

The NRA Foundation, the group’s charitable arm, bought nearly $US3.1m in ammunition and other supplies in 2017 from Crow Shooting Supply, a business controlled by Pete Brownell, a former NRA director and president.

NRA officials and Brownell say the group began purchasing supplies from Crow before Brownell took over the company in 2011.

However, the first time the foundation disclosed the contract in tax filings was in 2017, as The Wall Street Journal first reported.

NRA officials said the foundation made the disclosure in 2017 “in an effort to provide greater visibility regarding the Foundation’s mission and activities”.

A spokesman for Brownell, who announced last week that he was stepping down from the board to focus on his business, said the contract was vetted by the audit committee.

“Crow is one of the only wholesalers in the country who can meet the programmes’ volume and shipping needs,” spokesman Ryan Repp said. “Pete takes his ethical obligations seriously,” Repp said, adding that Brownell abstained from voting on issues that directly affected his business.

The amount of money collected by one board member remains unknown because she was paid by Ackerman, the marketing agency. Julie Golob, a gun activist in Kansas City, Missouri, hosts and consults for NRA video programming produced by the firm, according to internal documents.

She declined to comment on how much she is paid or on her dual roles as NRA director and subcontractor. The NRA has said that the arrangement was approved by the audit committee and that Golob does not participate in discussions related to Ackerman.

In addition to the 18 board members paid in recent years, the NRA also reported paying an undisclosed amount to a son of board member James Porter, a former president of the group.

The son, who works for the Bradley law firm, has been involved in extensive litigation involving guns, according to his biography. Neither father nor son responded to requests for comment.

Another director, Republican Representative Don Young, received thousands of dollars in donations from the NRA’s political arm to his campaign. Young did not respond to a request for comment.

$US17M SHORTFALL IN 2017

Longtime NRA members said they are worried that allegations of insider dealing and big spending at the NRA could create the appearance of impropriety.

“The NRA cannot afford to give fodder to the public and to the media that we are anything but above board,” said Tiffany Johnson, a firearms instructor in Memphis and lifetime member.

“We can’t give anybody any reason to even intimate that we have impermissible conflicts of interest, that there is self-dealing.”

Compounding the situation are signs that the NRA’s finances are under strain.

Public filings show that the gun rights group – which spent $US31m to help elect Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign, more than any other outside group – had a more than $US17m shortfall in 2017, the most recent tax filing available. That year, it collected nearly $US312m in revenue.

NRA officials said the organiSation is “on budget” this year and “meeting all banking and supplier obligations”.

But it is under intensifying scrutiny in Congress, where Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee have been examining the group’s ties to Russia. That inquiry has expanded to include the allegations of self-dealing.

Meanwhile, the turmoil at the NRA has benefited some other gun rights organisations, which said they have seen an uptick in memberships and contributions.

“In recent months, we have seen an over-20 per cent increase in support,” said Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation and chairman of its sister organisation, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

He said donors are giving in response to “reports of lavish spending” at the NRA and the support for gun control among Democratic presidential contenders.

NRA directors say the current fracas has been overblown and will not inflict long-term damage.

“We are the most influential body representing firearms owners in the world,” said Mills, the director from Arizona, “and we will survive this little speed bump and come out all the stronger and remain the guardian of civil rights.”

The Washington Post

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All About Guns Grumpy's hall of Shame

You poor thing you, WTF was your owner thinking of or not!?!

Glock purple
I still can not believe what Folks do to their firearms ! But I guess it is still a Semi- Free Country for the time being.

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All About Guns Grumpy's hall of Shame

WTF did they do to such a classic design!?!

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All About Guns Grumpy's hall of Shame

The M1870 Italian Vetterli Rifle

Sorry Guys but this is one of the Ugliest Rifles that I have ever seen! Which is really surprising to me. As The Italians almost always led the way in Style. Go figure!Italian Vetterli Carcano Model 1870/87/16, Non-Import, Blue 33 1/2” - Military Bolt Action Rifle MFD 1887 Antique No FFL - Picture 5

Italian Vetterli Carcano Model 1870/87/16, Non-Import, Blue 33 1/2” - Military Bolt Action Rifle MFD 1887 Antique No FFL - Picture 7
Italian Vetterli Carcano Model 1870/87/16, Non-Import, Blue 33 1/2” - Military Bolt Action Rifle MFD 1887 Antique No FFL - Picture 8
Italian Vetterli Carcano Model 1870/87/16, Non-Import, Blue 33 1/2” - Military Bolt Action Rifle MFD 1887 Antique No FFL - Picture 9
Here below is some more information about this critter!

 

Vetterli Model 1870
Vetterli-Vitali.jpg

Vetterli-Vitali rifle M1870/87
Type Bolt-action rifle
Place of origin  Kingdom of Italy
Service history
In service 1870-1941 (at least)
Used by Kingdom of Italy
Wars First Italo-Ethiopian War
Boxer Rebellion
World War I
Second Italo-Ethiopian War
Spanish Civil War
Production history
Variants M1870/87 and M1870/87/15
Specifications
Weight M1870/87: 10.19 lb (4.62 kg)
M1870/87/15: 10.19 lb (4.62 kg)
Length 52.95 in (134.5 cm)
Barrel length 33.85 in (86.0 cm)

Cartridge M1870/87: 10.4×47mmR
M1870/87/15: 6.5×52mm Carcano
Action Bolt-action
Muzzle velocity M1870/87: 1,410 ft/s (430 m/s)
M1870/87/15: 2,395 ft/s (730 m/s)
Effective firing range M1870/87: 2,000 m (2,200 yd)
M1870/87/15: 2,000 m (2,200 yd)
Feed system M1870: single shot
M1870/87: 4 round magazine
M1870/87/15: 6 round magazine

The M1870 Vetterli was the Italian service rifle from 1870-1887, when it was gradually replaced with the M1870/87 Italian Vetterli-Vitali variant. The M1870 was a single-shot bolt action rifle chambered for the 10.4mm Vetterli centrefire cartridge, at first loaded with black powder and later with smokeless powder. The M1870 was based upon the M1869 Swiss Vetterli but simplified for economy.

M1870/87[edit]

  • 10.4mm Fucile di Fanteria, Modello 1870/87 Vetterli-Vitali

In 1887 (until 1896), the Italian Army began converting the M1870 to a four-shot repeating rifle, based on the system designed by Italian artillery captain, G. Vitali. This conversion added a box magazine fed from a Swiss-style fabricated steel and wood stripper clip holding four cartridges, in the same caliber (10.4x47R mm) as before. The clip is pressed into the magazine, until the last round catches under the Cartridge retainer, and then the clip is withdrawn using the “pull string” in the top wooden frame of the clip. Clips of cartridges were supplied in a soldered sheet steel box, holding six clips.
The conversion to the Vitali magazine was done on the long rifle, the TS (special troops musketoon) and possibly some of the Carabinieri carbines; No Vitali conversions were done to the Moschetto da Cavalleria for metropolitan Italian troops. In 1888, the Fondo Coloniale (Eritrea) requested 500 Vitali-converted Vetterli cavalry carbines for the Eritrean Native Cavalry (“spahi“—Swahili for “horse-soldier”). There are currently five known examples still in existence ( one in Australia, two in the US, two in Italy). Collectors refer to it as the M1870/88 V.V.Eritrean cav carbine. The Regio Esercito (Royal Army) Cavalry units maintained the M1870 single shot Moschetto da cavalleria until replaced by the M1891 Moschetto da cavalleria, in 1893.
The conversion is indicted by a cartouche “Artig. Fab. D’armi Terni 1888” (dates vary), on the butt stock. The center of the cartouche displays a Crest of Savoy and the word, Riparazione (Italian for repair) is directly below the cartouche. Shortages of small arms appeared from the very beginning of Italy’s entrance into World War I on the side of the Allies.
As more of the population mobilized for the first total war in European history, the supply of modern small arms fell short before the end of 1915 and a large number of obsolete Modello 1870/87 Vetterli-Vital were issued to newly formed regiments that were not expected to be in combat, however, troops carried these antiquated rifles into battle on several occasions.
As well, in 1916, Italy sent a large number of Vetterli-Vitali rifles to Russia; ammunition and components were contracted for by Britain to the Remington Armory. These “tsarist” rifles eventually ended up in Republican hands in the Spanish Civil War, as the Soviet Union emptied its depots of all the old black powder and early smokeless rifles it had inherited after the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.

M1870/87/15[edit]

During World War I, many M1870/87 rifles were converted to share the same 6.5mm smokeless powder round as the primary service rifle, the Carcano, by adding a 6.5mm barrel lining and a modified M91 Carcano magazine. The barrel sleeving was called the “Salerno method”; The bolt face was also machined to accept the smaller diameter 6.5 mm cartridge head, and the firing pin shortened. These conversions were used for rear echelon troops (guards, training, etc.) and were rarely, if at all, fired with standard 6.5 mm military ball ammunition. After WWI, many of these rifles were assigned to the colonies of Tripolitania, Fezzan and Cyrenaica (Libya) and also to Eritrea and Somalia, again, as rarely-fired training rifles. These rifles were used again in the Second Italo-Ethiopian War, mostly by native African soldiers.[1]
It is considered by knowledgeable collectors[who?] that due to the rifle’s age and general condition (manufactured in 1870-1890s) and converted twice (1887-90s and again 1915-16), that the black powder technology of the Vetterli design is not suitable for repeated use (i.e. intense combat use) with normal Italian ball ammunition of 6.5 mm, or its present-day commercial equivalent. Even back in the 1920s, anecdotal accounts of Salerno sleeves loosening under “hot” fire (they were soft-soldered in place) and subsequent “blow-by” experience since the 1950s appearance of these rifles as surplus has led to safety concerns.[2]

Comparison with contemporary rifles[edit]

Comparison of 1880s rifles[3]
Calibre System Country Velocity Height of trajectory Ammunition
Muzzle 500 yd (460 m) 1,000 yd (910 m) 1,500 yd (1,400 m) 2,000 yd (1,800 m) 500 yd (460 m) 1,000 yd (910 m) 1,500 yd (1,400 m) 2,000 yd (1,800 m) Propellant Bullet
.433 in (11.0 mm) Werndl–Holub rifle Austria-Hungary 1,439 ft/s (439 m/s) 854 ft/s (260 m/s) 620 ft/s (190 m/s) 449 ft/s (137 m/s) 328 ft/s (100 m/s) 8.252 ft (2.515 m) 49.41 ft (15.06 m) 162.6 ft (49.6 m) 426.0 ft (129.8 m) 77 gr (5.0 g) 370 gr (24 g)
.45 in (11.43 mm) Martini–Henry United Kingdom 1,315 ft/s (401 m/s) 869 ft/s (265 m/s) 664 ft/s (202 m/s) 508 ft/s (155 m/s) 389 ft/s (119 m/s) 9.594 ft (2.924 m) 47.90 ft (14.60 m) 147.1 ft (44.8 m) 357.85 ft (109.07 m) 85 gr (5.5 g) 480 gr (31 g)
.433 in (11.0 mm) Fusil Gras mle 1874 France 1,489 ft/s (454 m/s) 878 ft/s (268 m/s) 643 ft/s (196 m/s) 471 ft/s (144 m/s) 348 ft/s (106 m/s) 7.769 ft (2.368 m) 46.6 ft (14.2 m) 151.8 ft (46.3 m) 389.9 ft (118.8 m) 80 gr (5.2 g) 386 gr (25.0 g)
.433 in (11.0 mm) Mauser Model 1871 Germany 1,430 ft/s (440 m/s) 859 ft/s (262 m/s) 629 ft/s (192 m/s) 459 ft/s (140 m/s) 388 ft/s (118 m/s) 8.249 ft (2.514 m) 48.68 ft (14.84 m) 159.2 ft (48.5 m) 411.1 ft (125.3 m) 75 gr (4.9 g) 380 gr (25 g)
.408 in (10.4 mm) M1870 Italian Vetterli Italy 1,430 ft/s (440 m/s) 835 ft/s (255 m/s) 595 ft/s (181 m/s) 422 ft/s (129 m/s) 304 ft/s (93 m/s) 8.527 ft (2.599 m) 52.17 ft (15.90 m) 176.3 ft (53.7 m) 469.9 ft (143.2 m) 62 gr (4.0 g) 310 gr (20 g)
.397 in (10.08 mm) Jarmann M1884 Norway and Sweden 1,536 ft/s (468 m/s) 908 ft/s (277 m/s) 675 ft/s (206 m/s) 504 ft/s (154 m/s) 377 ft/s (115 m/s) 7.235 ft (2.205 m) 42.97 ft (13.10 m) 137.6 ft (41.9 m) 348.5 ft (106.2 m) 77 gr (5.0 g) 337 gr (21.8 g)
.42 in (10.67 mm) Berdan rifle Russia 1,444 ft/s (440 m/s) 873 ft/s (266 m/s) 645 ft/s (197 m/s) 476 ft/s (145 m/s) 353 ft/s (108 m/s) 7.995 ft (2.437 m) 47.01 ft (14.33 m) 151.7 ft (46.2 m) 388.7 ft (118.5 m) 77 gr (5.0 g) 370 gr (24 g)
.45 in (11.43 mm) Springfield model 1884 United States 1,301 ft/s (397 m/s) 875 ft/s (267 m/s) 676 ft/s (206 m/s) 523 ft/s (159 m/s) 404 ft/s (123 m/s) 8.574 ft (2.613 m) 46.88 ft (14.29 m) 142.3 ft (43.4 m) 343.0 ft (104.5 m) 70 gr (4.5 g) 500 gr (32 g)
.40 in (10.16 mm) Enfield-Martini United Kingdom 1,570 ft/s (480 m/s) 947 ft/s (289 m/s) 719 ft/s (219 m/s) 553 ft/s (169 m/s) 424 ft/s (129 m/s) 6.704 ft (2.043 m) 39.00 ft (11.89 m) 122.0 ft (37.2 m) 298.47 ft (90.97 m) 85 gr (5.5 g) 384 gr (24.9 g)

Gallery[edit]

Sources[edit]

For the specifications and the service history of the Italian Vetterli-Vitali rifles. M1870/87 and the M1870/87/15: http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Italian%20Rifles/The%20ITALIAN%20VETTERLI-VITALI%20RIFLES/VETTERLI-VITALI%20M1870%20MOSCHETTO%20CAVALRY%20CARBINE.wps.htm#MODEL_18708715_RIFLEen:First Italo-Ethiopian WarBattaglia_dell’Amba_Alagi (it)Battaglia_di_Adua (it)Vetterli-Vitali_Mod._1870/87 (it)Vetterli-Vitali_Mod._1870/87/15 (it)http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=156589 Italian forces in the Boxer Rebellion.
For amendments and additions (July 2, 2015) Typographical, Vitali clip design and function, Eritrean Cav.Carbine, Salerno method, Safety of Ball 6,5 ammunition: Personal examination and research by Dr. Astrid M.Vallati MD, JD. (DocAV) AV Ballistics Technical and Forensic Services, Brisbane, Australia. Rifles examined: M1870/87 Long Rifle, ex-Tsarist Russia, ex SCW; Moschetto TS M1870/87 AOI marked; Moschetto Cavalleria Eritrea M1870/88: Provenance Confirmed, Bringback to Australia, in 1928, by Surveyor-Gen. of Sudan; Acquired from grandson of same in 1990s, with Certificate of Sudan Service. Fucile M70/87/15 Cal. 6,5mm.

References[edit]

  1. Jump up^ http://candrsenal.com/rifle-italian-vetterli-carcano-m708715/ C&Rsenal
  2. Jump up^ https://gunsmagazine.com/emergency-stopgap/ Guns Magazine
  3. Jump up^ “The New Martini-Enfield Rifle” (PDF). The Engineer. 2 July 1886. p. 16. Retrieved 3 April 2017 – via Grace’s Guide to British Industrial History.

 

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Grumpy's hall of Shame Well I thought it was funny!

A clear, concise explanation about Taxes!


Any questions? Good luck on your filing returns by the way!
Grumpy

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Grumpy's hall of Shame Related Topics

Happy Tax Day!



Thanks Federal Government for making our Money faith based only instead of Silver & Gold!

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Dear Grumpy Advice on Teaching in Today's Classroom Grumpy's hall of Shame Some Sick Puppies!

Just another reason on why I hated paying my Teachers Union Dues!

RHODE ISLAND · SCHOOL TALK

Both Teachers’ Unions Oppose Bill That Would Make Sex with Students a Crime

Yesterday at a hearing for a bill (HB 5817) that would make sex between school employees and students a crime—even after they’ve turned 16, the legal age of consent in Rhode Island—both teachers’ unions made their objections known. NEA RI didn’t have anyone testify but Pat Crowley did sign in to the hearing and note his opposition to the bill. I suspect the NEA also submitted written testimony. James Parisi of the United Federation of Teachers (UFT) did testify—in fact, we sat beside one another, each offering our very different opinions on the bill.

As it currently stands, Rhode Island is one of a few states where it is perfectly legal for teachers and other school employees to have sexual relations with their students once they turn 16. It’s literally a dirty little secret—almost no one seems to be aware of this loophole in the law and yet it leaves high school students without any protection from those who would sexually abuse them after their 16th birthday. We are also a state who, after a year long investigation by USA Today, received a grade of D for how well we track and share information about teachers who are also alleged abusers.
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Dear Grumpy Advice on Teaching in Today's Classroom Grumpy's hall of Shame

HUNTER MISTAKES MAN FOR COYOTE, GETS CHARGED WITH ASSAULT

coyote

Your odd news for the day. Hunter shoots man in the abdominal region after mistaking him for a coyote.

The news often has some bizarre stories. This story is will leave many scratching their heads.
Of course, hunting accidents happen all the time, but don’t hear about one like this too often. A coyote hunter in New York has just been charged with second degree assault for what he says was an accidental shooting of another man while hunting coyotes.
Monroe County Sheriff’s Deputies said Brett Blackburn, 42, and his son were on their property in the Town of Sweden hunting for coyotes around 6:30 p.m. when they saw movement in a field.
Blackburn reported to police that he saw movement in the field and shined a light in the direction of the object. He then observed what he thought was the eyes of a coyote.

“According to deputies, Blackburn fired his rifle and then heard someone yell. He assisted the victim, 32-year-old Robert Williams, who was shot in the abdomen. Blackburn’s son called 911,” WHEC.com (News10NBC) reported.
From all the reports it is believed that Blackburn and Williams had no connections nor did the know each other which leads people to believe it was an accident. Sources think that Williams was actually shed hunting and stumbled into the wrong area at the wrong time.
Warning to all you shed hunters!
Williams was removed from the field by ATV by local deputies. Sustaining life threaten ting injuries, Williams was then transported to Strong Memorial Hospital for treatment.
WHEC.com (News10NBC) reported that Williams’ sister said her brother  is out of surgery and that he lost his left kidney and spleen and that he is currently in a medically induced coma. She also added doctors said he should be OK.
Williams should consider himself a lucky man. Although investigators will continue to look into the case, we might enver know what really went on. Without further details we cannot speculate, but wow, what a story.
Brett Blackburn was charged with second degree assault as we stated earlier and arraigned in Sweden Town Court. His bail was set at $1,500 cash/$5,000 bond. The preliminary hearing will take place February 24.  A preliminary hearing is scheduled for Feb. 24 and maybe more news will be brought to the public after that.
Take notes. Be careful where you shed hunt and make sure you know for sure what your target is before shooting.
Did you enjoy this post? CLICK HERE to view more articles by Colton Bailey. You can also follow him on Facebook CB Outdoors and Hunting and Fishing Memes, and Instagram Ultimate Outdoors.