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An interesting Video about handguns that I would like to share

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All About Guns

Colts "The Woodsman" Semi Auto Pistol in 22LR

Colts Patents Arms Manufacturing Company -

Colts Patents Arms Manufacturing Company -
Colts Patents Arms Manufacturing Company -
Colts Patents Arms Manufacturing Company -
Colts Patents Arms Manufacturing Company -
Colts Patents Arms Manufacturing Company -

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J.P.Sauer & Sohn Suhl Pre-WW II Ll Semi Auto Pistol. .32 Auto (7.65 Browning)

Kinda looks like a Buck Rogers Ray gun huh?

J.P.SAUER & SOHN SUHL - Pre-WW ll Semi Auto Pistol. - Picture 1
J.P.SAUER & SOHN SUHL - Pre-WW ll Semi Auto Pistol. - Picture 2
J.P.SAUER & SOHN SUHL - Pre-WW ll Semi Auto Pistol. - Picture 3
J.P.SAUER & SOHN SUHL - Pre-WW ll Semi Auto Pistol. - Picture 4
J.P.SAUER & SOHN SUHL - Pre-WW ll Semi Auto Pistol. - Picture 5
J.P.SAUER & SOHN SUHL - Pre-WW ll Semi Auto Pistol. - Picture 6
J.P.SAUER & SOHN SUHL - Pre-WW ll Semi Auto Pistol. - Picture 7

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Federal Ordnance (I found this one on the Net. It is so well written that I could not pass it up!)

Post WWII Commercially Manufactured M1 Carbines (U.S.A.)

Federal Ordnance

South El Monte, California










The Founding of Federal Ordnance

In the early 1950’s Burton “Bob” Brenner became associated with Martin B. Retting at Retting’s gun store in upstate New York. In the mid 1950’s Retting sold the gun store to George Numrich and moved to the Los Angeles area with Brenner and started Martin B. Retting in Culver City, CA. Over time Numrich and the company’s subsequent CEO, Gregory Jenks, expanded the upstate New York operation into what is known today as Numrich Gun Parts of West Hurley, NY (E Gun Parts, Gun Parts Inc., Numrich Arms).
In The American Rifleman issue of July 1957, a three page advertisement announced Martin B. Retting was merging with Golden State Arms in Pasadena, CA. Golden State Arms is covered in more detail on this website under the name of Santa Fe. Within two years Retting separated from Golden State Arms and remained with his business in Culver City, CA. Brenner remained with Golden State Arms. In the Independent Star News of Pasadena, CA, August 16, 1959 an article on Golden State Arms identifies Burton Brenner as the youngest of three partners, the others being the founder Alvin Gettler, and Seymour Ziebert. For further on Martin B. Retting, refer to the pages on Santa Fe and National Ordnance M1 carbines.
Gettler left Golden State Arms in 1960 [Star News of Pasadena, CA May 6, 1965]. Ziebert and Brenner ran the business until financial difficulties caused the business to be auctioned in November 1966 [Long Beach Press Telegram, October 30, 1966 p.C4]. Ziebert moved to Spain and on November 16, 1966, Brenner founded and incorporated Federal Ordnance at a post office box in Los Angeles.


Federal Ordnance’s affiliation with National Ordnance

While employed at Golden State Arms Brenner had met John Arnold. In 1960 Arnold ran Alpine Industries, the distributor for National Ordnance M1 Carbines. Robert E. Penney Jr. handled the operational end of National Ordnance in Azusa, CA. In the Fall of 1962 Arnold took over the National Ordnance M1 Carbine operation and moved to South El Monte. Penney took the Alpine name and moved to another facility in Azusa where he manufactured M1 Carbines marked with the Alpine name. In addition to the National Ordnance M1 Carbines, Arnold assembled and sold Springfield 1903A3 rifles. Arnold had an ongoing need for surplus GI 1903A3 rifle parts.
When Brenner left Golden State Arms he was in possession of a large quantity of Springfield 1903A3 parts. Shortly after he founded Federal Ordnance Brenner met with Arnold and reached an agreement whereby Arnold would manage assembly and sales of the rifles being manufactured by National Ordnance, and Brenner as Federal Ordnance would manage parts acquisitions for National Ordnance. In 1967 Brenner and Federal Ordnance moved in with Arnold and National Ordnance at 9643 Alpaca in So. El Monte. Brenner related the two companies were maintained as two separate companies cooperating with one another. Brenner enjoyed traveling the world making deals with various countries and companies for parts and ammunition. Parts that could be used by National Ordnance were transferred to Arnold, ammunition and parts not needed by Arnold were sold by Federal Ordnance.
In 1968 Ilia and Jack Karnes opened A.R. Sales at 9624 Alpaca in So. El Monte, several buildings west and across the street from National Ordnance and Federal Ordnance. A.R. Sales manufactured Model 1911 receivers using aluminum. Karnes had worked for Golden State Arms under Ziebert and Brenner, managing a warehouse and assembly facility in Puerto Rico, where he had met his wife Ilia. In 1958 Golden State Arms had published a book on firearms, World’s Guns and other Weapons. Brenner was the Executive Editor, Karnes was an Associate Editor. A.R. Sales operation was initially a Karnes operation and not involved with Brenner, Arnold, or their companies. Karnes was often visited and/or consulted by Arnold, Brenner, Bob Penney and their employees. Karnes was known and respected for his old school machinist skills.


Federal Ordnance Moves, next door to National Ordnance

In 1969 construction was completed on a new 3200 sq. ft. building next to National Ordnance. National Ordnance remained at 9643 Alpaca, Brenner and Federal Ordnance moved into the new building just east of National Ordnance at 9647 Alpaca [Los Angeles County Tax Assessors Office].

John Arnold & National Ordnance 9643 Alpaca St., So. El Monte (1963-1974)
Bob Brenner and Federal Ordnance 9649 Alpaca St., So. El Monte (1969-1980)
Jack Karnes and A.R. Sales 9624 Alpaca St., So. El Monte (1968-1980)
Bob Brenner & Ranger Sales 9624 Alpaca St., So. El Monte (1981-1984)
Bob Brenner & Federal Ordnance 1443 Potrero St., So. El Monte (1981-1992) [1.5 miles SE]

Federal Ordnance absorbs National Ordnance

In 1973 John Arnold died of cancer. His will, the original having been read by this author, left National Ordnance to Jessie LaMont, wife of Wyant LaMont (manager of National Ordnance), and Walter Rayno (shop manager at National Ordnance).
The disposition of National Ordnance and reorganization of operations, personnel, and machines under Federal Ordnance required a number of years. Brenner had no experience at running the manufacturing and/or assembly end of the business. In June 1975 Brenner arranged for the shop manager of National Ordnance, Walter Rayno, to run the shop at Federal Ordnance. The following weekend Rayno died of a heart attack. Shortly thereafter, Jessie LaMont and Rayno’s wife sold National Ordnance’s assets to Bob Brenner. What Brenner couldn’t use he sold to Sarco Inc. in Sterling, NJ, a major gun parts wholesaler and retailer.
Brenner hired Jack Karnes of A.R. Sales as his chief machinist and eventually purchased A.R. Sales along with it’s machinery and 1911 inventory. Brenner renamed the business Ranger Machine & Tool Corporation, which he incorporated in May 1981. Initially the business remained in the same building at 9624 Alpaca. Jack Karnes stayed on as Brenner’s chief machinist for both Federal Ordnance and Ranger Machine & Tool.
In 1981 Brenner relocated Federal Ordnance approximately 1 mile southeast to a 10,080 sq. ft. warehouse at 1443 Potrero in So. El Monte. The smaller warehouse at 9649 Alpaca was retained as a machine shop.


Federal Ordnance
1443 Potrero
South El Monte, CA

U.S. M1 Carbine Receivers from the Philippines, imported by Federal Ordnance

Sometime in the mid 1980’s Brenner negotiated the purchase of a large quantity of M1 Garand parts from the Philippines. When the parts arrived in South El Monte and were sorted they discovered one crate containing approximately 300 U.S. M1 Carbine receivers. Brenner related he sold almost all of the receivers to Sarco in Stirling, NJ. These were not manufactured by Federal Ordnance. They were U.S. GI receivers manufactured during WWII and retain their original manufacture names. The Federal Ordnance name and So. El Monte, CA are an importer’s marking, required by U.S. law since the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Records of the U.S. Military Assistance Program maintained by the National Archives indicate the Philippines received 8831 U.S. M1/M2 Carbines between 1950 and 1963.

 
Inland U.S. M1 Carbine with Federal Ordnance Import Mark. Imported from the Philippines in the mid 1980’s. 
Brenner indicated the receivers were intact (not cut/demilled) but were extremely dirty, with some having heavy pitting.
Sarco sold the receivers retail for owners to build their own carbines. Examination of carbines having these receivers has revealed some of them have been repaired by welding (broken rear lug that engages trigger housing), but none so far appear to have been two M1 Carbine receiver pieces welded into one.

The M1 Carbines Manufactured by Federal Ordnance

During the interviews of Bob Brenner he insisted he had not manufactured commercial M1 Carbines. When shown photographs of receivers with Fed Ord So. El Monte on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, he indicated that while he was traveling the machine shop was being run by Jack Karnes. He suspected Karnes made them without his knowledge. This is a good possibility as Brenner traveled extensively hunting for military surplus for his company while others back in South El Monte managed the operation.
Prior to the interviews with Brenner one of his ex-employees, Robert Thomasser, had related to this author he was hired as a machinist at Federal Ordnance in 1982 to work on the Federal Ordnance M14’s. Thomasser indicated he did not work on the M1 Carbines or M1 Garands. Carbines were being worked on by Karnes when Thomasser was hired. Thomasser related the receivers for the M1 Carbines and M1 Garands were cast by ECRIMESA in Santander, Spain. At the time of the interview in August 2008 Thomasser owned and operated Pacific Canvas & Leather in Phelan, CA. Jack Karnes passed away in Los Angeles County in May 2008.
In their last few years of existence National Ordnance contracted Electro Crisol Metal, S.A. (ECRIMESA) in Santander, Spain to cast M1 Carbine, M14, and several other receivers. Ecrimesa is a very large well known metal foundry with a long history in manufacturing firearms. Several sources have indicated all of the M14, 1903A3, and M1 Garand receivers used by Federal Ordnance were cast by Ecrimesa. It’s highly likely Federal Ordnance obtained their M1 Carbine receivers from Ecrimesa. An ongoing effort is underway to locate one of the National Ordnance receivers made in Spain to closely examine the evidence left the tooling used to cast it (refer to National Ordnance for further). Contact with Ecrimesa via several different avenues so far has met with no response.
Bob Brenner of Federal Ordnance purchased the remains of National Ordnance from the families of two National Ordnance personnel who inherited it on the death of it’s owner in 1974. Brenner sold some of the National Ordnance inventory to SARCO about 1976, including the old tooling and dies used by National Ordnance for their M1 Carbines from 1960 through approximately 1971 (segmented recoil spring hole), prior to the receivers made by Ecrimesa..
The tooling used to manufacture the Iver Johnson carbines from 1979 through 1982 matches the casting mold marks that appear on the carbine receivers used by Federal Ordnance 1982 and later.
Most of the commercial companies who made M1 Carbines had possession of, or access to, surplus carbine parts. They would acquire receivers and barrels with which to build M1 Carbines. This appears to have been the case with Federal Ordnance.
The best evidence as to what was done at Federal Ordnance relative to the M1 Carbines that have their name have been the actual carbines. Hopefully owners will share additional information that will assist with what has been observed so far.


Serial Numbers

Serial numbers used by Federal Ordnance that have been observed so far fall into one of three different serial number blocks.

FEDERAL ORDNANCE M1 CARBINE RECEIVER SERIAL NUMBERS
(rounded to the nearest tenth)
Year Manufactured Lowest Observed
(so far)
Highest Observed
(so far)
Differences
1982 40,003 40,834 Receiver #1 (below)
1985-1986 50,960 51,820 Receiver #2 (below)
unk 24 0240 Receiver #2 (below)

The last four digits of the serial numbers starting with a 5 began where those preceded by the 4 had left off. The 4 appears to identify the carbines assembled in 1984 with the 4 changed to a 5 for those assembled in 1985 with the last four digits simply continuing their numerical progression as carbines were assembled. The characteristics of the markings on the receivers having serial numbers two or three digits have been consistent with those whose serial numbers begin with 5.
Carbines whose serial numbers begin with a 5 have been dated from the paperwork that accompanied the carbines when was purchased new in January 1986 from the retailer Walter Craig in Shotgun News. The cover paper with the manual was dated May 1985 (see the 50,000 sequence below). The July 1, 1985 issue of Shotgun News carried a Federal Ordnance advertisement that offered M1 Carbine receivers for sale indicating they were made from 8160 steel.
Use of the encircled F (a Federal Ordnance logo) preceding a serial number appears to have started sometime between serial numbers 51100 and 51600 but isn’t always present with the higher serial numbers.


Receiver #1: S/N Sequence 40,000 (1984)

This receiver was cast using the tooling and dies used by Iver Johnson’s Arms in Middlesex, NJ for their carbines they manufactured from 1978-1982. In 1982 Iver Johnson was bought by a group of investors in Arkansas who moved the company to Jacksonville, AR. The Arkansas operation inherited a number of receivers in various stages of machining from the New Jersey operation. Some of these receivers they used but eventually switched to a different tooling and mold than was used by Iver Johnson in New Jersey.
Federal Ordnance may have bought these receivers from Iver Johnson’s Arms, acquired them from someone else who purchased them as surplus, or had them cast from the tooling and mold used by Iver Johnson’s Arms in New Jersey 1978-1983.
Then encircled F has not appeared on the receivers in the 40,000 serial number block.






Note the curve on the front of the lug the trigger housing pins too




Note the casting mold lines


The barrel was manufactured by boring out the rear half with the integral gas piston housing and inserting a barrel cut to fit into the rear half then soldering the insert in place. This technique was used by a number of early commercial carbine manufacturers, using a demilled rear half of an M1 Carbine barrel and using a 1903A3 barrel cut down to carbine size. This technique is shown on the page devoted to National Ordnance. It is not known if this barrel was on the receiver when Federal Ordnance sold it, however, at least one other Federal Ordnance receiver in the 40,000 serial number series has been found to have a barrel exactly like the one above.


Receiver #2: Serial Number Sequence 50,000 (1985) & Three Digits Serial Numbers

This carbine is made with almost all GI parts with the exception of the receiver and half the barrel. As with the 40,000 series, this barrel was constructed using the gas piston housing and rear half of a GI carbine barrel (in this case, an Inland barrel) into which was inserted a machined down 1903 barrel.
The encircled F preceding the serial number appears to have been started by serial number 51600. While it appears on most carbines thereafter a few have been found absent the logo.
The casting mold lines match the receiver above. Unlike the previous receiver, the markings on this one indicate CAL 30 ML instead of CAL 30 M1. The manufacturers name and location, located on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, were part of the casting. These Federal Ordnance ML carbines are the earliest receivers seen with this ML marking which continued on with the carbines by IAI and current day Auto-Ordnance carbines.



Note the ML instead of M1

Cast with the receiver

The circled F is not part of the serial number, was not used numerically, and often not present.







Note the cast mold line

Note the discoloration where the barrel meets the gas piston housing

Rear half and gas piston housing are from a barrel manufactured by Inland


Note insert inside the Inland barrel
Click on underlined words to download manuals in Adobe pdf format.

Federal Ordnance
1985
M1 Carbine Manual

Download (6.02mb)
Federal Ordnance
1985
M1 Carbine Parts Price List

Download (1.74mb)
Federal Ordnance
1985
M1 Carbine Gun Safety Manual

Download (5.71mb)
Federal Ordnance
1985
NRA Safety Manual

Download (1.83mb)

Note: The 1985 Federal Ordnance manual photographs appear to be a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy. If I can locate the original source I will add here.

Federal Ordnance Changes Faces and Passes into History

On April 20, 1992 Briklee Trading Company (often misspelled as Brickley) was incorporated in California by Brenner’s son-in-law, Richard Siegel. Shortly thereafter Federal Ordnance turned all of it’s assets over to Briklee Trading. Brenner indicated changes in Federal laws making the importation of firearms much more difficult motivated him to turn the business over to his son-in-law. Initially Briklee Trading operated out of the same warehouse in So. El Monte where Federal Ordnance had been located. Eventually they relocated to Valley Glen, CA, and later Sherman Oaks, CA.
Federal Civil Court records show on August 27, 1998 Briklee Trading, Burton Brenner, and Richard Siegal were sued for breach of contract by Beyton Ltd. Beyton Ltd was an off shore corporation located on the Isle of Jersey (off the coast of France), with a physical address in Luxembourg. The suit was filed in the United States, the case was heard in U.S. Federal Court in Los Angeles [2:98-cv-07040-CBM-CW Beyton Ltd v. Briklee Trading Co, et al]. The court records indicate Burton Brenner and Richard Siegel were Briklee Trading. The outcome of the suit in 2000 caused Siegel to file for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. Brenner retained Briklee Trading, but the company was no longer doing business.
Shortly after the above lawsuit was filed, on November 3, 1998 Brenner incorporated Pacific Ordnance in California. The business was located in Pico Rivera, CA, and sold a small line of shooting accessories and a few items left over from Federal Ordnance.
In 2002 Brenner suffered a stroke that left him unable to continue operating the business and caused him to file for bankruptcy. Brenner never fully recovered from the stroke and passed away in August 2009 in Sherman Oaks, CA.

Surplus M1 Carbine Receivers left over from Federal Ordnance

According to Larry Horner (Liberty Armory) who was hired by Israel Arms International (IAI) in 1995 to assemble their carbines, the first IAI carbines were assembled using surplus Federal Ordnance receivers. The first receivers used by IAI match Federal Ordnance Receiver #1. They were followed by receivers marked Made in Spain. Examination of the first receivers used by IAI revealed the same casting mold marks as those observed on the Federal Ordnance carbines (refer to the pages on IAI for further details).
Few of the three digit serial numbers have been reported to date. Some of these were sold as receivers only by Sarco in 2007, over 14 years after the demise of Federal Ordnance. Sarco specializes in acquiring and selling surplus some of which is obtained from companies who are at the end of their lifespan or from auction houses selling the leftovers of these companies. The receivers were marked Federal Ordnance and are duplicates on the serial numbers in the 50,000 range except for the 3 digit serial number. It is not known if these three digit receivers were given serial numbers by Federal Ordnance as opposed to Sarco.

Other Weapons from Federal Ordnance

While working alongside National Ordnance 1968-1974, and as Federal Ordnance alone 1978-1992, Federal Ordnance was involved in a large scale operation of importing almost any military surplus firearms, parts, ammunition and accessories they could find. While at the same time manufacturing 1911’s, building a cut down version of the M1 Garand known as the “Tanker Garand” (refer to the pages on Alpine Carbines, and National Ordnance Carbines), and a variety of other firearms. While with National Ordnance, the imported firearms were turned over to National Ordnance. Business for Federal Ordnance peaked 1978-1992, during which the Federal Ordnance name began appearing as the manufacturer on a number of firearms and as the legally required importers marking on others.
When the complete firearm could not be imported, Federal Ordnance would import the parts and arrange for the receiver to be manufactured. Receivers were normally made by investment casting. Federal Ordnance then built the complete firearm using the parts and the cast receiver.
One example of this are the Federal Ordnance M14 rifles. The M14 is a selective fire weapon, capable of fully automatic fire. The People’s Republic of China had manufactured copycats of the U.S. M14 and had made them available for sale as exports. Federal Ordnance, as did other companies, imported the parts off the Chinese M14’s. Federal Ordnance arranged for the manufacture of semi-automatic only M14 receivers, on which were built the entire rifle. For further information on the M14’s, including those manufactured by Federal Ordnance, refer to Lee Emerson’s work researching and documenting the M14, M1A, and variations.
Please note, my research has been the M1 Carbines. I have little to no information on all the other weapons they imported and/or made other than what is shown here.
Federal Ordnance M14’s



Import

Continuation of the Ranger Sales 1911’s

Import

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Sturm, Ruger & Co. Inc Ruger Security Six 357 Magnum Cal. Hogue Monogrip .357 Mag.

A good solid revolver that is not going to cost an arm & or a leg!

Sturm, Ruger & Co. INC - RUGER SECURITY SIX 357 MAGNUM CAL. HOGUE MONOGRIP - Picture 1
Sturm, Ruger & Co. INC - RUGER SECURITY SIX 357 MAGNUM CAL. HOGUE MONOGRIP - Picture 2
Sturm, Ruger & Co. INC - RUGER SECURITY SIX 357 MAGNUM CAL. HOGUE MONOGRIP - Picture 3
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Sturm, Ruger & Co. INC - RUGER SECURITY SIX 357 MAGNUM CAL. HOGUE MONOGRIP - Picture 7
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Sturm, Ruger & Co. INC - RUGER SECURITY SIX 357 MAGNUM CAL. HOGUE MONOGRIP - Picture 9
Sturm, Ruger & Co. INC - RUGER SECURITY SIX 357 MAGNUM CAL. HOGUE MONOGRIP - Picture 10

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Ladies with Firearms

 

 

 

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Never underestimate anybody in a combat zone!

The Grey Man snippet…

The usual caveats apply… Sigh…

Instructing again

SAC Coleman led Bucky and the old man into the instructor’s lounge saying, “You can hang out here. We’ve got another hour before you’re on. There’s coffee, and there might be a Danish or two left. The bathroom is down the hall on the left.”
Coleman left and Bucky said, “I need to hit the bathroom. Be back in a minute,” as he followed him out. The old man made a bee line for the coffee, and poked through the remaining Danishes, What happened to the donuts? How hard is that… Crème cheese, crème cheese, dunno what the hell that one is…
He took the cup of coffee and wandered around the room, looking at the pictures and plaques on the wall, chuckling to himself at the pats on the back some of the plaques displayed. As he walked back to the coffee pot, he heard, “Hey, what are you doing in here? This area isn’t for visitors, it’s only for instructors.”
He turned and look at a youngish, dark haired, slightly pudgy man standing belligerently in the doorway. “Who said I wasn’t an instructor?”
“You’re wearing a visitor badge, that doesn’t allow access back here. You need to leave!”
The old man grinned, “You gonna make me, boy?” Noting a different badge hanging from the man’s jacket, he switched the coffee cup to his left hand and dropped his right hand to the hem of his jacket, as he bladed up on the man.
Something in the old man’s eyes stopped the young man, and he took off without another word as Bucky came strolling back in, “What the hell was that all about?”
The old man shrugged, “Beats the hell outta me. Some punk didn’t like me being in here with a visitor’s badge on. I invited him to throw me out.”
Bucky shook his head and laughed, “Dammit John, you’re getting grouchy in your old age.” Reaching for his belt, he pulled his badge off, and slipped it into the front pocket of his jacket, “The shit I gotta do to keep you out of trouble. You could have just shown him your badge.”
“Why spoil his fun? If he’d asked politely…”
Coleman came in shaking his head, “Fucking students. One just came up and said that there was an old man… Ah crap, Captain, what did you do?”
Bucky laughed as the old man said, “Didn’t like his asshole attitude, so I invited him to throw me out.”
Coleman burst out laughing, “Oh lovely. You bruised that poor baby agent’s ego and his sense of invulnerability. He’ll probably have to have a timeout in his safe space now.”
The old man shook his head, “Has it gotten that bad?”
“Damn near. We’re having to teach more touchy feely crap now than ever before. And we can no longer post grades. That’s demeaning to the lower scoring agents. Speaking of which, I talked to the baby agent’s instructor, and he’s going to have them sit in on your lecture to the NA class.”
“I ain’t going to sugarcoat things. And some of the pictures are pretty nasty. Maybe your babies don’t want to see it, but the cops on the streets need to.”
“Show it, they need a dose of reality.”
***
SAC Coleman finished introducing the old man, “Having said that, Captain Cronin has over forty years in the field as a deputy sheriff in South Texas, in addition to his tour with DEA. He graduated from National Academy twenty-eight years ago. He and Supervisor Grant will give the presentation as a tag team. Now for you agents in training, this is outside your normal curriculum, but we felt it was worth your time to hear from people on the front lines of the drug and human smuggling battle.”
Bucky ran through the recent operations the DEA had conducted, and gave an overview of the Laredo border crossing, noting that all of the southern border crossings used similar procedures. He turned to the old man, “And now for the meat, so to speak, I’ll turn it over to Captain Cronin. He’s old, he’s grumpy, and he personally has been responsible for twenty-two tons, yes tons of product taken off the street, and untold lives saved. John?”
The old man walked to the lectern, advanced the slide, and looked out over the auditorium. He nodded to Aaron, and was surprised to see Matt sitting next to him. How did, ah not going to bother. Guess the girls and kids are shopping. “Contrary to what you see in the media and in the reports, we’re pretty much losing the battle with the smugglers. We get one, two, maybe three of ten shipments. And it’s not just coke and marijuana, it’s now heroin, meth, and Fentanyl. They are creative, they are ruthless, and they will use any tactic at their disposal to get whatever they are smuggling across the border.” He advanced through a number of vehicle slides, showing the hidden compartments, and more slides with the cocaine, heroin, and Fentanyl hidden in various things, from furniture to watermelons.
“Now I want to talk about human trafficking. It’s not just Hispanics coming across the border, nor is it adults. It’s all nationalities. And some truly bad people, including terrorists.” He clicked the money slide, “Five thousand dollars is the basic fee charged per person. Now you might get a discount if you agree to be a mule and carry a fifty pound pack of cocaine across when you come, but you might not. And if you die in route, too bad, so sad. Hundreds of bodies are found each year in the desert in the southwest. Many of them are female or young, including a week old baby.”
He advanced to the line of bodies after the incident at Monahans, and heard groans from the audience, “This was a seventy-five thousand dollar haul for the coyotes. The truck driver did not know what was in the trailer, it’s called no touch freight. It was a sealed trailer pickup in El Paso, with a drop at a yard in Oklahoma City. It was over one hundred degrees in the trailer, and the illegals had been stuffed in the trailer for at least two days. Seven of them died either in the trailer or at the hospital later, including another baby. And the FBI didn’t know a single thing about this group.”
He turned to the agents in training, “Y’all don’t really do a lot with human trafficking on this scale, or the day to day drug runners. You like to run two or three year investigations, then swoop in and arrest as many as you can.” He shrugged, “Granted it gets you good press, but it doesn’t endear you to the folks on the street.”
The same youngish man stood up, “But you’re supposed to cooperate with federal law enforcement. That’s the law!”
Laughter from the NA students gave him time to frame his answer, and he asked, “Where did you go to law school, son?”
“Harvard Law, if you must know. And I’m not your son!”
The old man grimaced, “Thankfully.” Which prompted a laugh from the NA students again. “Son, lemme give you a little real world advice. You may know the law inside and out, but if you go out on the street with that attitude, you’re never going to get cooperation from the locals on the ground. You try to tell a career officer what to do, he or she is going to ignore you. And the whole department will ostracize you and the local office. Don’t believe me?” He pointed to the NA students. “Ask any of them. Hell, ask any of them what their current level of cooperation with the FBI is.”
That prompted another round of laughter, and Bucky got up to stand beside him, “Any questions on smuggling or human trafficking? We’ve got ten minutes left.” After a few more questions, Coleman dismissed the group, and the old man said, “Sorry about that. But that little asshole needs to get an education before he hits the street. You’ve got enough problems out there today without people like him adding to it.”
Coleman grinned, “Hell, I thought it was great! Personally I doubt that he will survive the basic course. He’s got an attitude problem, not just with the other students, but also with some of the staff instructors that aren’t lawyers. You guys did a great job, and I’d appreciate copies of your presentation, if I could get it.”
Bucky pulled a thumb drive out of the computer and handed it to him, “Voila! With all the background material, including John’s papers that were done for the DEA, FBI, and the Academy here.”
***
Aaron and Matt came out of the dorm, saw the old man leaning on his rental and walked quickly over. Aaron said, “I was showing Matt the dorm. I figured you didn’t need to see them again, since they’re the same ones you lived in, apparently.
“Yep, same brown building, same entry. We were on the second and third floors, with the baby agents on the fourth. Don’t miss that a bit!”
Matt looked around, “Any idea where the girls are?”
“Jesse said something about the exchange, bathrooms, and lunch.” Pulling his sleeve back, he glanced at his watch, “They said they’d be back by two. And it’s now two-thirty.”
Aaron shook his head, “I swear, she’ll be late to her own funeral. I guess we wait, since you can’t use phones on base.”
Matt chimed in, “Do we want to go to the museum today, or go by the Batt today and museum tomorrow? And Felicia said we’re taking the kids tonight so you and Jesse can have a little private time.”
The old man coughed to cover a laugh, “The bat?”
Aaron laughed, “Weapons battalion. That’s where we worked out of for range training. Some pretty neat things over there, and that’s also where the rifle and pistol teams are out of.”
Jesse, Felicia, and the kids pulled up in the van, and Jesse called out, “Sorry. Took a little longer than we thought. Where are we going?”
The men looked at each other and Aaron said, “Lets go to Weapons Battalion. That’ll be fairly quick.”
The old man flipped him the keys, “You drive. You know the base better than I do.” He climbed in the back seat, laughing as he continued, “Bout damn time I had a driver!”
Aaron mumbled something that Matt laughed at as they got in the car, and Aaron drove through the base to the battalion. Parking in the lot, they piled out and Aaron led the way, holding hands with Jace, as Jesse carried Kaya. Matt had Esmerelda by the hand and Felecia carried Matt, junior, with the old man bringing up the rear and shaking his head.
Aaron stopped at the desk, and the sergeant on duty asked, “Can I help you?”
Aaron said, “Just wanted to look around, Sarge. We,” pointing to Matt, “used to be instructors here. Doesn’t look like much has changed up front.”
The sergeant laughed, “It’s the Corps, sir. Nothing changes.”
They all laughed, and a voice came out of the back of the building, “I know that gahdamn voice!”
The sergeant popped to attention and whispered, “Master Guns.”
Aaron and Matt looked at each other, until Master Gunnery Sergeant ‘Snake’ Venman strode into the front office. A grin split his face, and he came around the counter, grabbed Aaron in a bear hug and laughed, “You sumbitch! Where have you been hiding?”
Aaron pounded him on the back, “Snake! Master Guns? Is the Corps in that bad a shape that they promoted you?”
Snake laughed, “Desperation makes strange things happen. Mizz Miller, it’s nice to see you.” He knelt and looked at Jace, “And you must be Jace! Last time I saw you, you were a baby!”
Jace piped up, “I not a baby.”
Everyone laughed and Snake replied, “Not anymore,” as he got up.
Aaron said, “Snake, this is Matt Carter, his wife Felicia, Esmerelda, and Matt, junior.”
Jesse added, shifting Kaya, “And this is Kaya. Good to see you too.”
Snake shook hands with Matt, “I remember you. You ran the range at Pendleton, with Moretti.” He nodded to Felicia, “You and Matt weren’t married when you were at Pendleton, were you?”
Felicia smiled, “Not originally, we got married in Texas, then came back to Pendleton.”
He turned to the old man, “And you must be John Cronin. Aaron talked about you a lot.”
They shook hands and the old man said, “I’m pretty sure they were lies.”
Snake laughed, “I doubt that. So what the hell are y’all doing up here?”
Aaron replied, “I’m going through the FBI’s National Academy for law enforcement, and John came up to give a presentation on smuggling. Matt and Felicia just came along for the ride, since Felicia has never seen this place. Wish I’d known you were here.”
“Well, now you know. I’ll tell the old lady. She’ll be happy to see you, and cook something you and me can maybe eat. Or I’ll do a BBQ. Y’all want to look around?”
Aaron glanced at everyone and saw heads nodding, and Snake told the sergeant, “If the colonel starts looking for me, I’m giving some old farts a tour. Be back in a while.”
Snake grabbed his cover, and led them through the facilities, including the armory, classrooms, and the marksmanship unit’s spaces, where a copy of the National Team and National Infantry Team trophies were centered in the display case. Snake said, “We won both this year. The kids are damn good.”
Felicia asked, pointing to the targets on the walls, “What are those?”
Snake looked around, and said, “Those are match winning or perfect targets. They go back years.”
“But they are so big.”
All the men laughed, and Matt said, “Not a thousand yards,” as he hugged her.
Felicia smiled ruefully, “I didn’t think about that.”
They piled back into the cars and Snake directed them over to the 1000 yard range, where a class was shooting. Getting out, Felicia elected to stay in the car with the kids, but everyone else got out and Snake passed out earplugs, “This is the sniper class that’s about to graduate. They’re shooting the different weaps to see which ones they are best on, and famming on the M82s.”
The old man asked, “What calibers?”
“Three-oh-eight, three-thirty-eight, and fifty.”
They heard a call, “Cold range. Cold range. Safe your weapons, open bolts. Standby until released by the instructor.”
Jesse asked curiously, “Break time?”
“That and switching shooter and spotter. Both need to get experience on the guns and spotting.”
The old man commented, “Very nice range. And some interesting winds.” Snake looked at him and he continued, “Different wind at what, six hundred than at the pits.”
Snake grinned, “Yeah, it is a challenge. Think you could hit the target?”
The old man laughed, “Ain’t that much of a challenge. But you got kids to teach.”
“Oh we can a few extra minutes. Three-oh-eight or three-thirty-eight?”
“Either one.”
“Want me to spot?”
“Nah, my spotter is here.” He turned and got Jesse’s attention, “Spot for me?”
“Papa what the hell are you doing?”
Shoving a thumb at Snake he said, “The master guns here doesn’t think I can hit the target from here.” He took his jacket off, handing it to Aaron with a wink, “Hold this. Looks like I got some more instructing to do.
Jesse rolled her eyes, “Oh my God. Yes, I’ll spot for you.  Men!”
Snake called out, “Gunny Suarez, what target were you on with your students?”
A squat lean Gunny stood up, “Nine, Master Guns.”
“Gonna have a little demonstration. Mr. Cronin is going to show these kids how an old man shoots. Meet him at the gun, please.”
The gunny met the old man and Jesse at the rifle, and the old man asked, “Where is it zeroed?”
Gunny Suarez said, “It was zeroed at three hundred. Corporal Hines was on with it as set at a thousand. He was center punching the silhouette. You familiar with an MRAD, sir?”
The old man chuckled, “A little bit. Thanks Gunny.” Turning to Snake, he said, “One sighter, then I’m good.”
“Only one?”
“One.”
Jesse grumbled, “Glad I’m not in a skirt. What got you spun up?”
The old man grinned, “I’ve always heard about this place, never got to shoot here. Now I can say I did shoot here.”
Jesse sighed, “Papa, you are crazy. Just… Gah…”
“Let’s do this.”
They heard the call, “Eyes and ears, hot range. Hot range. Target nine, you are clear to fire.”
He snuggled down behind the gun, got his position and said, “Target nine, correct?”
Jesse swung the spotting scope slightly, “Nine.”
He ran the bolt, dry fired, and ran the bolt again, dry firing a second time, “Nice trigger. I like mine better, but I can shoot this. One round, sighter.”
“Wait, let me see where the other impacts are. Okay, got them. If you shoot high center, it’s clean.”
The old man wiggled again, then said, “Target.”
“Send it.”
BOOM. Ting. Jesse said, “One half MOA down from the shoulder, half MOA right.”
“Got it.” He reached over and grabbed a magazine, checking to make sure it was fully loaded and slammed it home. “Here we go.”
“Target.”
“Send it.”
BOOM. Ting. Boom, ting four more times, and he said, “Okay, head shots.”
Jesse sighed, “You sure?”
“Yep, target.”
“Send it.”
BOOM. Ting. “Center of the head. Hold what you’ve got.”
Four more rounds went down range, each one a hit. He dropped the mag, opened the bolt and rolled off the gun grinning, and Jesse said, “You’re safe. Papa, I… you… are nuts.”
“Hon, I’m an old man. Lemme have my fun. You want to try it, there’s another full mag sitting here.”
Jesse looked back at Aaron, who was standing with Snake and Matt, and she saw him roll his eyes. The old man said, “She should get to shoot it, since that’s the way y’all train, right?”
Snake shook his head and smiled, “Go ahead Mizz Miller.”
Jesse switched positions with the old man, grumbling, “I must be as crazy as you are. Dammit Papa, I’m not… Oh to hell with it. Where were you holding?”
“Center, one dot right for wind. Same wind. Load and go.” He turned, “Going hot.”
Snake echoed, “Going hot, aye!”
One of the gunnies standing behind the line snarked, “Bet she gets less than two hits. She’s shooting wrong handed, she’ll never get that bolt…”
Matt leaned over, “I’ve got a hundred says she goes ten for ten.”
The gunny snapped around, looked at Matt and grinned, “You’re on.”
Another gunny laughed and said, “Damn, I should’a thought of that.”
Aaron chuckled, “I’ve got another hundred for you, Gunny.”
The gunny looked at Aaron and back to the Jesse, “Hell, why not. She ain’t got any graveyards I’ve seen.”
Aaron smiled, “I’ve seen ‘em. They’re real. He turned to Snake, you want in?”
“Nah, I’ll pass. I heard about her shooting a Pendleton. And she taught my wife, remember?”
“Smart man.”
Jesse wiggled down, unaware of what was going on behind her, and said, “Target on nine.”
“Send it.”
BOOM. Ting. “Center. Hold what you’ve got.”
Nine more times Jesse sent rounds down range, with nine more hits. She dropped the mag, opened the bolt and said, “Safe.”
The old man said, “Safe.”
She rolled off the gun and got up, brushing off her blouse and pants, “Oh well, I can change when I get back to the hotel. She looked up to see Matt and Aaron collecting money, with Snake laughing and she shook her head. “Men. They bet on me, didn’t they?”
The old man laughed, “Probably.”
As they walked back up to Snake, the young troops gathered round, and they heard the susurration of multiple comments, “Damn, I can’t shoot that. Did you see her shoot…”
Snake held up a hand, “Marines, let this be a lesson. Mr. Cronin here has been a sniper for how long?”
The old man cocked his head, “Oh, about fifty years, give or take.”
“And Mizz Miller?”
Jesse said, “I’m not, not really. I’ve been Papa’s spotter for… twelve years.”
“Marines, this is why you never underestimate anyone in the field. If you get in combat. The sniper you may be facing might be just like either one of these folks. Do not, I repeat, do not underestimate your opponents. Break is over, back on your guns.”
The old man looked at him, “Teaching point, eh?”
Snake grinned, “And to knock some of the smart ass out of them. They’re good, but they need to be humbled on occasion. And I was pretty damn sure you’d do that.”
The old man laughed, “You used us, and I used you. Fair trade.”
Jesse smiled, “And I need to go to the bathroom. Are we through with the dick beating now? Aaron, since you won that money on me, you are buying everybody dinner.”
Everyone laughed as she headed for the van, and Snake wrapped his arms around Aaron saying, “Y’all have fun. Aaron, give me a call when you get time off. Same number.”
Aaron pounded him on the back, “Will do, thanks for the tour, Snake.”

Categories
All About Guns

New Winchester 1873 Rifle vs Original

Image result for New Winchester 1873 Rifle vs Originalhttps://youtu.be/-LwezZBpf7U
 

Categories
All About Guns Allies Gun Info for Rookies Hard Nosed Folks Both Good & Bad

Some good info by CarteachO

Carteach0

Sunday, December 16, 2012

Wheel gun carry: .38 Special Vs .357 Magnum

Despite the staggering number of choices amongst semi-auto pistols for personal protection, there are still a large segment of the population who prefer revolvers.  Even those who swear by one auto or another often have a small revolver as a backup.
Why?  Because they work.  It’s not new technology.  Most are not fancy.  Almost none have any kind of external safety to remember under stress.  They just….. work.  Pick up a double action revolver, squeeze the trigger, and if it’s loaded there will likely be a Bang.  If not, squeeze the trigger again and try the next hole.

Revolvers have been around the personal defense scene for many generations, and for concealed carry, the shooting public seem to have settled on the snub-nose for everyday carry.  Short, small, relatively light, and utterly dependable, a snub nose has been in the pocket or holster of many an officer or shopkeeper since the 1940’s.  Even earlier, lawmen were cutting down larger pistols and making their own snubbies, the easier to pack some protection as they patrolled city streets.  J. Edgar Hoover required his agents to be armed at all times, and demonstrate proficiency with the little snubby on a regular basis.
There’s a wide range of caliber choices for those packing a wheel gun, but two still hold the position of top dogs by a very wide margin.  The .38 Special, a round that’s been chambered in pistols since 1900, and has been in wide use since the 1930’s.  The other, the .357 magnum, developed from a desire for a more powerful version of the .38 special, and that’s exactly what it is.
Dimensionally almost exactly the same as the .38, the .357 is made just a little longer so it will not chamber in a .38 Special hand gun.  This prevents the high pressure .357 round from being mistakenly fired from a .38 special gun…. and also gives us a wonderful choice.  This closeness in dimensions means any firearm chambered in .357 will also shoot the .38 Special, allowing the shooter to have a much cheaper, quieter, and gentler round to practice with and enjoy.  While point of impact will change quite a bit between the two rounds, this is of little concern at typical self defense practice ranges of 30-50 feet.

More to the point, for our discussion, the .357 offers a substantial boost in velocity and energy when compared to the .38 Special.  Even the ‘+P’ version of the .38 made for modern pistols does not come close to equaling the power available from the .357 loaded to full pressure.
The higher pressures of the .357 Magnum requires a somewhat beefier build to the pistol, but weight and size comparisons between snubbies of both calibers show them nearly the same.
The choice facing us is not really one of weight or dimension, but power.  Control ability and muzzle blast come into play, as does recoil.  The .357 does not get it’s nearly doubled energy over the .38 Special without a cost.  While a .38 snubby might be relatively comfortable to shoot for most people, the same pistol in .357 has a ….. ‘snappy’…. recoil that nobody sneers at for long.   Perhaps that’s why so many revolver shooters enjoy the ability to practice with .38 ammunition, but carry defensively with .357 Magnum rounds in the chamber.

This is a point Carteach agrees with.  Given the choice between the same pistol in .38 Special and .357 Magnum, it only makes sense to buy the magnum version.  One can then always shoot the lighter .38 loads, and even carry them if desired.   I consider it a cost-free option, as the magnum pistols are generally no larger or heavier than the .38 version these days.
As for ‘stopping power’, that has always been a nebulous term.   The fact is…. pistols don’t generally knock people over.  They punch holes in them, and if nerve centers or major bones are hit, the fight is generally over.  Otherwise, pistol level rounds just punch holes and mess things up.  Yes, they will eventually knock down just about everyone…. but that notion of a bad guy hit with a bullet from a pocket pistol, and immediately doing a double backflip over the railing and falling into the volcano…. only in the movies.

That same reality holds with both .38 Special and .357 Magnum.   The only real difference between the two is velocity and energy.  Both, kept to proper bullets for their velocity, have excellent track records in self defense.  The .38 Special holds it’s defensive position well when stocked with the old FBI load….. a 158 grain hollow point lead semi-wadcutter bullet.  This bullet punches holes, and messes things up, and that’s all that can be expected.
The .357 Magnum, with it’s higher velocity and energy, makes bigger holes and messes up more stuff.   As simple as it sounds, this difference is significant.  Very significant.  As a result, the .357 Magnum has a substantially better first shot drop record in defensive shootings.
If one can deal with the recoil, muzzle blast, and control issues of the .357, there is no reason not to choose it over the .38 Special.   As said….. one can always just stoke the pistol with .38’s instead of .357’s.  That said….. The Fat Old Man would not feel undergunned with the ancient .38 Special, given an understanding of it’s limitations.  There’s been a representative sample in his collection for many, many years indeed.  It fills a niche nicely, serves it’s purpose without fanfare, and has the most important feature possible in any defensive weapon….. it works.

Categories
All About Guns California

Way Back before California lost its mind -Golden State's Arms Corp

 This just makes me sick looking at it!(Yeah I know this was before inflation really took off)  But it seems that I was born too late.
Now I got into this just about when California really started into the massive anti gun control. When they had a store like it down in South El Monte. Where they had a huge number of Surplus rifles, odds & sods.
Image result for Golden State Arms Co., Santa Fe Division [Pasadena, CA]
Image result for golden state arms
Image result for Golden State Arms Co., Santa Fe Division [Pasadena, CA]
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