Month: January 2022
When picking out a vintage shotgun there are so many different things to consider. After all, there’s always some risk/concern when you buy anything used – and shotguns are no exception. These tips will help ensure you get the right gun.
Related Article: History of Colt’s Snake Guns
Fitting the Gun: Length of Pull, Cast, Drop at Comb, Face & Heel
First and foremost, the gun has to fit you. If it doesn’t move and point naturally with you, then you’re not going to hit anything. Because you’re buying an older gun that was made for (or altered by) one or many previous owners, you’ve got to be sure the gun fits you properly.
A vintage shotgun’s cast to the left or right is used to ensure proper placement of the shooter’s eye over the center of the rib. If the cast isn’t right, you’ll notice it right away because your eye won’t line up correctly.
The length of pull on vintage shotguns is often – but not always – shorter than what you’d find on a new, modern shotgun. Bringing the gun to your shoulder will immediately tell you if it’s too long or short. Simply put, it just won’t feel right.
The gunstock’s drop is equally important and can cause you to shoot too high or too low if it’s not properly aligned. Try out several guns and take measurements at each of the drop points from the barrel alignment so that you can compare guns and know what measurements are right for you.
Chamber Length
Vintage shotguns will often have shorter chamber lengths. This is due to the fact that shot shells of yesteryear that were made from paper or metal and used fiber wads that were of different dimensions than the plastic hull and shot cups we have today. While you might be able to fit the same shells you usually use into a vintage gun, there’s a chance it’ll end up stuck in the chamber once fired. You may also experience an increase in recoil due to the extra pressure build-up. It’s possible to have the chambers lengthened, but it’s easier (and cheaper) to buy shorter shells.
Barrel Length
For one reason or another, a previous owner may have cut down the barrels on a shotgun. There are a few easy ways to tell if this has been done. First, measure them. Uncut barrels will always be in whole-number increments. If you come up with a fraction, then they’ve been cut. Also, look for abrupt changes in engraving patterns or truncated words. Cut barrels will often interfere with the flow of rib engraving or any markings that were originally on the end of the barrels.
Barrel Thickness
Like all things that see repetitive use over the decades, shotgun barrels do wear out. This could have been expedited by the use of older powder that didn’t burn as clean as modern powder, use of corrosive primers, or lack of proper maintenance for years on end. This can cause pitting that, if deep enough, can make the barrels too thin to be used safely. Make sure you give the barrels a good look and ensure that they’re free of any fouling that may be concealing pits or other kinds of damage.
Hinge Pin
Be sure to check the fit between the action and the barrels. A shotgun’s hinge pin can wear out over time, making the fit sloppy and loose. A loose fit between these surfaces can cause gas to blow back into your face. Make sure you take the barrels out of the action and examine the mating surfaces. Be wary of any misshapen spots that could have been created by trying to bend the parts and create a false sense of proper fit.
Locking Mechanism and Lever
Take a look at the lever that’s used to disengage the locking mechanism. A proper lever should be centered or just to the right of the action. If the lever rests to the left, it could be a sign of excessive wear.
BONUS: The Finish
Sometimes it’s very obvious that a shotgun has been re-blued. This could be because the markings are no longer as sharp, the color doesn’t look quite right compared to guns you know are original, or the color isn’t consistent for the full length of the barrels or action.
Re-bluing in and of itself isn’t an issue when done properly. Older shotgun ribs were often attached with soft solder. If the person who re-blues the barrels uses the hot caustic method instead of rust or cold bluing, the original rib solder can be weakened, and the rib may eventually separate from the barrels. Test the barrels by hitting them with a soft mallet or your shoe. They should ring clearly; if you hear a rattle instead, then you know something is up with the fit between the rib and barrels.
Wrap-Up
Without a doubt, this list is not exhaustive; but it’s an excellent place to start. In addition to the things on this list, I’d recommend that you look at a lot of shotguns, bring a friend or family member who has bought a used shotgun before, and have a qualified gunsmith look it over if you have any doubts. If you do all of these things, you’ll be well on your way to breathing new life into an old shotgun.
In my last post, I focused more on the first day a Cherry spent in the jungle. He discovered how difficult it was to 
search for the enemy through the thick, impenetrable jungle while carrying sixty-five pounds of supplies on his back. The temperature and humidity were both near one-hundred and it felt like walking through the largest sauna in the world. His first night was like a terrible nightmare; the pitch blackness limiting visibility to only a foot.
His bed was the jungle floor; sharp twigs, roots and stones jabbed at him all through the night, jarring him awake each time he shifted around or turned over. He was so tired, but would not sleep on this first night. He knew the enemy was out there somewhere looking for him, and every shadow – be it leaves and branches moving during a short breeze or the moonlight filtering through the canopy and dancing across the vegetation. All this told his brain that something is out there. He’s paralyzed, frozen in place with fear, too afraid to even close his eyes. He prayed for daylight, which was still hours away. It was, by far, the most terrifying night of his entire life.
Today, I want to write more about another fear these young men had to endure while living in the jungles. Mother Nature had created many wonderful things over time; some were beautiful and others were downright frightening. The jungles of Vietnam were home to every creature, 
beast, and insect known to man. Some veterans attest to seeing tigers and elephants in the boonies, but I can’t say that I saw neither. However, I had seen many wild boars, cobras, small and deadly viper snakes, different spiders and a few boa constrictors. Someone once said that Vietnam was home to 100 different species of snakes – 98 were poisonous and the other 2 could crush a person to death.
Tarantulas (and other species / sizes of spiders – some the size of dinner plates), red ants, and black horseflies all hurt like hell when they bit. Bees, 
wasps, hornets, centipedes, millipedes, lizards, frogs, rats, scorpions, land and water leeches, orangutans, spider monkeys, bats, and hordes of mosquitoes attacked us whenever we entered their domain. The liquid bug juice 
supplied by the military kept many of the flying insects from landing on bare skin, but did nothing to prevent those long-beaked malaria-carrying insects from biting you through clothes. I’d try to cover my head at night with a poncho liner to keep the mosquitoes away, but it was hot and uncomfortable and there was no escaping the constant buzzing in your ears as the blood-thirsty swarms hovered above my head, awaiting patiently for an opportunity to taste the sweet nectar.
Another heart stopper is when you felt something moving across your body during the night – there were no lights to turn on or flashlights available to investigate – besides, any light in the dark jungle would be a beacon to those who want to kill me. You took your chances and either swatted, brushed, jumped up from the ground, or just left it alone. Some of these creatures had claws 
that gripped you; swatting at them usually pissed them off and resulted in a retaliatory bite, sting, or pinch. Most of the above were venomous and could make one very sick or even kill.
Someone once said that what you can’t see won’t hurt you. That might work for your peace of mind during the night, but let me tell you, these creatures were always found in the damnedest of places first thing in the morning. You could find them in your pockets, boots, helmet, rucksack, canteen cup, or laying with you under the warmth of your lightweight poncho liner blanket. A search and destroy effort was usually the first thing on the agenda every morning.
We had no choice but to endure! How would you have fared?
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_______________________________________________________I stole this from the Great Blog Vietnam Cherry which is worth your timr if this is your area of interest! Grumpy
U.S.A. –-(AmmoLand.com)- How long can ammunition be stored before it degrades? Much depends on the storage conditions. With reasonable care, ammunition has a shelf life of many decades, as verified by tests done with military centerfire cartridges.
But how long does .22 rimfire last before it starts to degrade? There has not been much systematic long-term storage testing of .22 rimfire. It tends to be used as an expendable item. Some people have found an old box or two of ammunition and checked it for viability.
This correspondent was able to obtain a large cache of 65+-year-old .22 rimfire ammunition with a good pedigree. The bulk of the ammunition was Remington Standard Velocity .22 Long Rifle ammunition made before 1956.
I met the owner at the University of Wisconsin in 1970. We started a friendship that lasted 48 years, to his death in 2018. The friend was Don Cowling from Middleton, Wisconsin. He is the world record rat hunter who this correspondent wrote about in 2016, when I became aware of the provenance and extent of the ammunition cache.
From that article:
The .22 ammunition has been in the jars for over 60 years. He allowed me to crack the seal on a mason jar that had been filled before I entered first grade. I anticipated an odor of acetone, as you often find in old smokeless powder. I could not detect any, nor could my friend. There was a faint hint of old wax, barely noticeable.
My friend gave me an even two dozen rounds to test to see if it had been degraded. I shot the ammunition out of a Mossberg target rifle of similar age. I fired the rounds at my brothers long established range behind the garage on family land in Northern Wisconsin. Every round fired as though it were new. I fired four five-shot groups at 50 feet from a rest. The first was the largest at .56 inches, center to center. The rest were .32, .31 and .31 inches. Not enough to win matches, perhaps, but perfectly good for hunting. My brother fired the last four shots offhand.
Don treasured his privacy, so his name was not mentioned in the 2016 article. The ammunition was mentioned, with a picture. Don knew I would reveal his name after he died, and did not object.
Don was a star handgun competitor at the University of Wisconsin. A top handgun competitor can easily run through 50,000 to 100,000 rounds a year. Don told me the ammunition was put in the quart jars before or during 1956. Don was on the University of Wisconsin Varsity ROTC pistol team when they won the regional championships in 1955. Don always paid for things in cash, or in trade or barter. I suspect the ammo was obtained in a special deal.
Placing the ammunition in quart jars sealed it from the atmosphere. It likely helped keep the bullet lubrication from oxidizing.
Ammunition obtained later was so noted in his records. His records showed the pre-1956 ammunition to be Remington Standard Velocity. His records match the ammunition headstamps.
Don kept meticulous records. After he died in 2018, this correspondent had access to his lifelong records and journals.
I was able to purchase his .22 ammunition cache of tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition from his estate. Over 20 thousand rounds of the cache was Remington standard velocity ammunition obtained in or prior to 1956, transferred to quart jars from boxes by 1956. It was stored for 15-17 years in an attic in Madison, Wisconsin, then underground from 1970-72 to 2018 in a basement in Middleton, Wisconsin. After the ammunition was purchased from the estate, it was moved across the country, then stored in a secure underground location.
The ammunition was purchased to conduct rigorous long-term storage testing of .22 rimfire ammunition. If there are other caches containing significant amounts of 65+-year-old .22 rimfire ammunition, they are unknown to this author.
The initial test procedure used a control of 500 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity 22LR Ammunition, lot H05S, manufactured on August, 5th 2012. The ammunition was tested in a Mossberg 702 semi-automatic Rifle with factory 10 round magazines. The rifle is expected to be used throughout the long-term test. The rifle was purchased new in anticipation of the ammunition test.
A few hundred rounds were expended through the rifle before the test, from various manufacturers. The same rifle was used with the old Remington ammunition, to limit test variables. Accuracy testing was done at 25 yards. Velocity testing was done with a Caldwell Chronograph G2 eight feet from the muzzle.
10 fouling shots were fired, followed by 5 five-shot groups from a rest at 25 yards. The rifle was equipped with an inexpensive Simmons 4×32 .22 Mag scope.
After accuracy testing, 50 shots were fired to register on the chronograph to obtain average velocity, standard deviation, and extreme spread.
The rest of the 500 rounds was fired for reliability. The manufacturer recommends the rifle be cleaned after firing 200 rounds. The rifle was cleaned at the beginning of the test, and every 250 rounds after that, so test conditions would be the same for both sources of ammunition. Most shots were fired with a few seconds between shots. Nearly all shots were fired from magazines loaded with 10 rounds.
The test is for the ammunition, not the rifle. A semi-automatic rifle was used for uniformity of action. A semi-automatic is considered a bit more ammunition sensitive than single-shot rifles or manual repeaters. If the ammunition will cycle a semi-automatic action, it should work in manually operated repeaters or single-shot firearms.
The same procedure was used to test 500 rounds of the 65+-year-old Remington Standard Velocity ammunition.
65 Year Old .22 Rimfire Ammunition Test Results:
Accuracy, an average of 5 five-shot groups at 25 yards, measured center to center:
- CCI Standard Velocity: .502 inches
- Old Remington Standard Velocity .565 inches
Velocity measurements for 50 rounds, average velocity, Standard Deviation, extreme spread in feet per second (fps).
- CCI Standard Velocity: Average 1072.3 fps, SD 17.5, extreme spread 84 fps, 1035 to 1119.
- Old Remington Standard Velocity: Average 1098.9 fps, SD 19.8, Extreme spread 101 fps, 1041 to 1142.
Reliability for 500 rounds fired:
- CCI Standard Velocity: 1 failure to fire, round 102, strong firing pin strike, rotated the round, it fired on the second strike.
- Old Remington Standard Velocity: 1 failure to fire, round 252, second round after cleaning. Very light primer strike (probably a mechanical rather than ammunition failure). The round was rotated. It fired normally with a second strike.
For practical uses of .22 rimfire ammunition, there is no significant difference between the nine-year-old CCI ammunition and the 65+-year-old Remington ammunition.
This correspondent intends to make this testing a regular event. Data will be collected about the storage life of .22 ammunition, to the point of finding significant degradation, or of running out of ammunition.
There is enough ammunition to extend the test to over 100 years of storage if 500 rounds are fired each year. Alternatively, 500 rounds could be tested every two years, or five years, extending the test even longer!?
Enormous quantities of .22 rimfire ammunition have been purchased in the last two years. Much of it has been stored. If stored at reasonable temperatures in airtight containers, it should be useful for at least 65+ years. As no degradation has been detected in the stored Remington ammunition, the upper limit of storage life is unknown.
The author expects the test project to extend beyond his lifetime. The intention is to find viable candidates to continue testing to at least 2056.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
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