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Fears of a Chinese invasion have Taiwanese civilians taking up target practice by STEPHANIE YANG

People shoot at targets with air pistols during a shooting training session at Taiwan CBQ Club in New Taipei City, Taiwan, on May 21, 2022. (Annabelle Chih / Los Angeles Times)
People shoot at targets with air pistols during a training session at Taiwan CQB Club in New Taipei City, Taiwan, on May 21, 2022. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

In a leaky warehouse on the outskirts of the city, Su Jun readied his weapon at the commanding shout. Down the line, more armed men clad in camouflage vests, utility belts and kneepads did the same. Another order came and they opened fire.

Shots popped and echoed beneath the cavernous ceiling. The would-be defenders kept shooting, switching between rifles and pistols leveled at cardboard targets. On a final command, the clamor subsided, leaving plastic pellets scattered across the floor. Su let his BB gun drop.

Su, 39, is not a soldier but a tattoo artist. The only time he held a rifle that fired real bullets was more than a decade ago, during the two years of military service then required of men in Taiwan. But while the guns in his hands were fake — and the drill more paintball target practice than military maneuver — the threat in Su’s mind was viscerally real.

People hold rifles.
Tattoo artist Su Jun, 39, attends a shooting training session at Taiwan CQB Club in New Taipei City, Taiwan, on May 21, 2022. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

For decades, Taiwan has lived under the specter of military aggression from mainland China, which considers the self-ruled island as part of its territory. But it wasn’t until Russia invaded Ukraine in February that many Taiwanese started wondering what role they might play if a war broke out at home and Chinese soldiers were suddenly on the beaches.

Worried that he might need to take up arms, Su quickly signed up for a beginner’s airsoft gun class and two more after that.

“It just feels like anything is possible,” Su said.

In Ukraine, civilians joined the fight against Moscow with assault rifles and Molotov cocktails. Finnish citizens, also sharing a border with Russia, have rushed to wartime defense courses to learn hand-to-hand combat and how to use weapons. In Taiwan, though, a similar instinct has run up against strict gun control laws and a complicated history between its people and military, dating back to the days of martial law under the Nationalist Party, or Kuomintang.

“Guns were an evil thing. You didn’t want to come into contact with them,” said Max Chiang, chief executive of Polar Light Training, which hosts airsoft training classes including those that Su attended. This year, interest in classes has tripled, he said, with at least half of new participants motivated by the war in Ukraine.

People carry air rifles.
A shooting training session at Taiwan CQB Club. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

Cross-strait tensions have intensified as Chinese President Xi Jinping’s calls for unification have become more assertive in the face of increasing opposition from Taiwan. Even among the concerned, few Taiwanese believe an invasion is imminent. But watching Russia attack Ukraine has highlighted the worst-case scenario in confronting a hostile, territorial and vastly bigger neighbor.

Those fears have reinvigorated debate over Taiwan’s national defense strategy, and whether it can withstand a similar assault from China. Chinese war planes have buzzed the island in recent years, and Beijing’s naval exercises in the South China Sea have unnerved the region. Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen has stepped up defense spending to record levels, while U.S. officials have weighed in on how Taiwan can best deter China’s expanding military.

President Biden said this week at a Tokyo news conference that the U.S. would get involved militarily to defend Taiwan. The comments appeared to have marked a departure from Washington’s longtime “strategic ambiguity,” a policy that left open the question of whether the U.S. would send forces to Taiwan in a war with China. The White House later said the administration’s stance had not changed, but the statements tapped into a sense of growing unease among Taiwanese and the international community.

A man aims a weapon.
Tech journalist Alan Chen at Taiwan CQB Club. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

With the U.S. committing weapons but not soldiers to help Ukraine, many wonder whether the same may happen in Taiwan. According to an October poll by the Taiwanese Public Opinion Foundation, 65% of respondents believed the U.S. would dispatch troops to Taiwan. That number had fallen to 36% in April.

Polls in recent months have also shown that a growing majority of the Taiwanese population are willing to fight to defend the island of 23 million from a Chinese invasion. Taiwan has lived with this dilemma since 1949, when Chinese Nationalists fled to Taipei after a civil war with Communist Party forces.

That history became resonant in February when Caren Huang watched on TV as 5,000 miles away Ukrainian civilians took up arms to battle for their home. It was then that she decided she should learn how to shoot a gun.

On a rainy Saturday morning in May, she trekked to Linkou, a district northwest of Taipei whose name means “mouth of the forest.” At the end of a winding mountain road, she was surprised to discover that she wouldn’t be using real firearms. Still, as she held the air pistol in her hand, lighter than she had imagined, it felt sleek, cool and somewhat stress-relieving. In the quiet between shooting rounds, crickets chirped from the thickets of bamboo outside.

A row of people watch a man shoots a weapon.
An instructor demonstrates shooting techniques at Taiwan CQB Club. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

For most of her life, the 44-year-old former financial analyst assumed that Taiwan would eventually unite with mainland China. Growing up under martial law, Huang remembers learning about her Chinese identity and the greatness of the Chinese nation in school. At 17, she and her family emigrated to New Zealand, where she gradually realized the cultural and political differences between Taiwan and mainland China.

When she returned to Taiwan after college in 2000, China was on an economic upswing. The country was opening up to the outside world and seemed rife with business opportunities. Huang thought that by working more closely together, both sides of the Taiwan Strait could benefit.

Many of her friends felt the same way. But as China’s meteoric growth tapered and the government tightened its grip on civil society, including its crackdown in Hong Kong, her doubts deepened.

“As long as it’s an authoritarian country, they can regress at any time,” Huang said. “Then whatever rights you have, the government can take it all back. I feel like this is the scariest thing. If their political system doesn’t change, then I think it will be very hard for Taiwan to join with China.”

Even as she began to favor independence, Huang had thought it highly unlikely that China would attack Taiwan. She didn’t rule out minor skirmishes, but the economic and political ramifications of an all-out invasion seemed too high to justify. Seeing Russian President Vladimir Putin launch a war on Ukraine made her feel that nothing was certain.

“If they really need me to pick up a gun and defend the country, or if they need any kind of first aid, or if they want us to do anything else to help, then I’ll do it,” Huang said.

People handle weapons.
A shooting training session at Taiwan CQB Club. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

That kind ofresolve is crucial to Taiwan’s ability to repel an invasion, experts said, especially given China’s advantage in numbers. The Chinese People’s Liberation Army totals about 975,000 active-duty personnel, according to U.S. estimates, compared with Taiwan’s 169,000. However, the collective will to fight is difficult to gauge in a society where military service and training are not highly valued and often derided.

“Military men have no social status in Taiwan,” said retired Adm. Lee Hsi-ming, who served as the chief of the general staff of Taiwan’s Armed Forces. “This is the military’s problem, and the whole nation’s problem.”

To engage more citizens, Lee has proposed training civilians in combat to form a volunteer defense force, similar to Ukraine’s Territorial Defense Forces. Two years ago, the idea of sending civilians out to die was met with widespread backlash. There was notably less criticism when Lee raised the prospect again this year. Such an initiative would need government backing to succeed, he said.

People aim weapons.
Personal trainer Chris Chen, 26, shoots at a target. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

The more concerning problem, though, said Lee, is a young generation that is reluctant to enlist in the military even as it becomes increasingly vocal against Beijing.

“If you are very provocative and you don’t have the capability to defend yourself, that kind of provocation will be dangerous,” Lee said. “It’s better for Taiwan if we have a robust, resilient defense capability, but we don’t do any provocative things.”

In preparation for potential conflict, some Taiwanese have sought out disaster response seminars and first-aid classes in recent months. Yet those who envision themselves engaging in war have found BB gun training to be their best bet.

Alan Chen, a journalist who writes about military technology, had essentially considered airsoft guns toys. But the invasion of Ukraine, along with several tactical shooting YouTube videos, persuaded him to try them out in case he was called back to serve.

A person holds a rifle.
Tattoo artist Su Jun at Taiwan CQB Club. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

“If things really go down, I don’t want to be the one that hinders someone else,” the 38-year-old said. After his first few classes, his concerns shifted. “Now, I’m kind of worried that my teammate might shoot me accidentally, because I know that they haven’t gotten that training.”

Taiwan started to transition to an all-volunteer military several years ago, but has had trouble attracting new recruits. Currently, young men are required to complete four months of military service and return periodically for training as reservists.

Chris Chen, a 26-year-old personal trainer in New Taipei City, could envision a life in the military, given the proper training. But he said his four months of conscription had confirmed the rumors: Serving in Taiwan’s army was largely a waste of time.

A man holds a weapon.
A man showcases air gun models at Taiwan CQB Club. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

“I trained like my father did, which is you only shoot in one position, and six shots every time,” Chen said in between drills at Polar Light’s two-day advanced tactical shooting course. “I need to come to these kinds of lessons to actually learn something.”

Chen’s criticisms are common among men who have completed Taiwan’s mandatory military service. Recruits have described the exercises as boring and aimless, largely consisting of chores and paperwork, while practice in firearms is limited.

Still, Chen acknowledges that some might find training with air guns equally futile.

“People are like, ‘Why are you so serious? You’re shooting BB guns,’” he said. His response to them? “You should always be prepared.”

Aware of such critiques, the government has announced intentions for military reform. Lawmakers have extended the training period for some military reservists from several days to two weeks, and are contemplating extending conscription from four months to one year.

“When legislators try to increase the duration to serve in the military, it was a kind of political suicide in the past,” said Democratic Progressive Party legislator Wang Ting-yu, who sits on Taiwan’s Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.

Equally important, skeptics said, is whether the additional time would be used effectively. The Ministry of National Defense this year launched a bureau to oversee and improve reservists’ training. Wang said in the scenario of an attack, 200,000 professional military members, along with a first tier of 300,000 reservists, would be organized for duty in the first 24 hours. The remaining 2 million or so reservists would serve as supporting personnel.

Wang added that Ukraine demonstrated the need to rally civilians to mount an effective resistance. But he pointed to potential dangers in arming all of them: “Do we need to make these kinds of civilians capable to defend our country? We are debating about that,” he said.

Su Tzu-yun, an associate research fellow at Institute for National Defense and Security Research, a government-funded think tank, said the recent inspiration to fight among Taiwanese citizens should be utilized.

“I think this is the most important factor in all wars in history: the determination to defend your country,” he said. “Those who want to practice shooting, target practice, right now Taiwan’s system doesn’t allow that. That needs to change, to let those who want to learn how to fight.”

As an island, Taiwan has a less imminent need for foot soldiers than if it shared a land border with China. Taiwan has pursued an “asymmetrical” approach to warfare, prioritizing weapons and materiel purchases to ward off attacks from the air and sea, with ground forces acting as a last line of defense.

People shoot at targets.
Air pistol training session at Taiwan CQB Club. (Annabelle Chih / For The Times)

If a battle ever reaches that point, many Taiwanese are unsure what will come next.

“Right now Taiwan’s leaders, they need to communicate with society. This will be critical to whether — no matter if it’s territorial defense or volunteer reserves — it works,” Su said.

A civil defense handbook published in April by the Ministry of National Defense was widely panned for its lack of useful information. The book included basic instructions on what residents should do in a war, including QR codes and hotlines to call for help. The ministry is revising it and plans a reissue this year.

Stanley Shen, a 33-year-old engineer, said he found the survival books he purchased himself vastly more helpful than the government-issued one. Until recently, he hadn’t considered how he might respond in the midst of war. But when he saw a YouTuber post about Polar Light on Facebook, he and his girlfriend signed up for the beginner course.

After his first class, Shen said, he planned to buy his own airsoft gun to sharpen his skills.

“No one wants war. But if it really happens, I hope that I can learn enough in this class to improve my ability to keep those I care about and need to protect safe,” Shen said.

This story originally appeared in Los Angeles Times.


Nothing like the threat of getting mugged to change ones mind! Grumpy

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Do .410 Bore Shotguns Make Sense for Home Defense? Often dismissed as ineffective for personal protection, .410 shotguns can get the job done when loaded properly. by B. GIL HORMAN

410 Shotgun Defense Lede

Discussing the use of .410-bore shotguns for home defense often ruffles some feathers. “You should get a 12-gauge shotgun,” they say. “That’s the best shotgun for the job!” This sentiment is not untrue, but it’s also not complete.

Let me be clear, combat shotguns chambered for 12-gauge shells are, shot-for-shot, among the best close-range fight stoppers yet devised. They throw an impressive amount of lead with nearly irresistible levels of force at across-the-room (3 to 7 yards) and across the house (7 to 15 yard) distances. Lew Gosnell, training director of Gunsite Academy, summed it up quite succinctly during a 12-gauge shotgun demonstration when he said, “Shotgun fights don’t last for very long.”

Combat shotguns chambered in 12-ga., like this Mossberg 590A1, have long been favored for military, law enforcement and home-defense applications.

But due to Newtonian physics, 12-gauge levels of stopping power come at a price. Full-power shells filled with hard-hitting defensive payloads can generate intense levels of felt recoil. The shotguns themselves can be relatively large, heavy and too long in the stock, making them unwieldy for some folks. For this reason, a more complete statement regarding the defensive 12-gauge would be that it’s best option if the home defender can manage it.

For this conversation, let’s take a look at the reasons why one might choose to stage a .410-bore shotgun for home defense, some of the suitable .410 shotguns currently available and which types of .410 shells are a good fit for personal protection. Some of the guns and ammunition mentioned here fall under the “whatchagot”category of defensive options.

Why Choose a .410 Bore for Home Defense?
The top reasons for picking a .410 bore for home defense were touched on above, namely, gun size and felt recoil. The shotguns are slim, lightweight and often available in compact configurations with the same shorter 18.5″ to 20″ barrel lengths commonly used with 12-gauge security shotguns.

Mossberg Security and Shockwave models chambered in .410 are slimmer and lighter than 12-gauge models.

But these aren’t the only reasons to consider a .410. A shorter-barrel model can share ammunition with longer hunting .410 shotguns or .45 Colt/.410-bore handguns like the Taurus Judge revolver. This saves money for those who use .410 for sporting purposes and reload the shells themselves. In this same vein, sporting models and defensive models that share the same controls, features and levels of felt recoil make it much easier for the self-defender to transition between them. In fact, some models can comfortably be used for both sporting and defensive purposes.

Finally, a .410 may be either the only gun you currently have access to, or, it may be the gun you have at hand when a self-defense situation arises. This means having at least some defense-grade ammunition on hand, and an understanding of what it can do, is a good idea.

A Quick Note on Ammunition Performance
The scientific field of research known as ballistics is dedicated to understanding how firearms and their projectiles perform. What it boils down to for the home defender is this: Projectiles launched by a defensive handgun, rifle or shotgun must penetrate deeply enough that an attacker loses the ability to continue the assault.

.410-bore shells are available with a variety of projectiles.

But how much penetration is enough? Back in the late 1980s, the FBI’s Firearms Training Unit (FTU) established a series of ammunition performance protocols in which handgun rifle and shotgun rounds are fired into 10% ballistic gelatin. As a rule of thumb, they are looking for projectiles that travel through the gel to an optimum depth of 12” to 18”. Projectiles that penetrate less than 12” are not considered a good fit for home defense. This standard is used for the Clear Ballistics synthetic gel test results included below.

Ballistic gel testing is a good way to evaluate ammunition performance.

It should also be noted that several of the defense-grade .410 shells available these days were developed for the popular Taurus Judge .45 Colt/.410 revolver. The performance of these defensive handgun shells improves when fired from 18.5″ to 20″ shotgun barrels.

.410 Bore Shells for Home Defense
Originally developed by Eley Brothers of England in 1874, the .410 bore is one of the smallest shotgun shells commonly in use in the United States today. It is currently available with birdshot, buckshot, slugs and mixed payloads. Let’s take a look at each and see how they fit into a self defense plan.

Long guns chambered for this round are eminently suitable for small game hunting, pest control and for more experienced sporting clays enthusiasts when the shells are filled with tiny lead pellets which are commonly referred to as “birdshot.” The vast majority of .410 shells manufactured in the past, and today, are topped off with various sizes of birdshot.

However, the small and relatively light birdshot loads launched by .410 shotguns are poorly suited for self defense applications. When fired from .410 shells, birdshot payloads are quite small when compared to larger shot shells, the pellets tend to spread apart relatively quickly and they do not penetrate deeply enough to reliably stop a threat.

Shown here is a gel block shot with the only “defensive” birdshot load I’m aware of, Federal Premium’s 2½” long .410 Handgun load topped off with 7/16 oz., or about 60 pellets, of copper plated #4 birdshot with a listed muzzle velocity of 1200 f.p.s. (a velocity that’s similar to larger shot shells).

The pellets stopped at distances between 4″ to 8.5″ in the gel block with the majority of pellets stopping  somewhere between 4.5″ to 6.5″. This is well below the FBI’s 12” minimum. Being peppered with this .410 birdshot load would be an excruciatingly painful wake up call, even for an assailant wearing thick clothing. However, due to the pain nullifying effects of drugs and adrenaline, self defenders can’t count on pain alone to deter a determined assailant. Due to low levels of penetration, it’s best to reserve .410 birdshot loads for pest control, sporting clays and small game hunting. If birdshot is “whatchagot,” then be aware of its limitations and plan accordingly.

Buckshot is comprised of much larger and heavier round lead pellets than those used in birdshot. It’s a popular option shell configuration for hunting and home defense because of the advantages it offers at close range. The individual pellets have enough mass and momentum to produce effective levels of penetration and tissue damage. However, several pellets are launched simultaneously. If they strike the target at close range, while still clustered together, they produce a massive impact. If the target is further away, and the pellets spread out to form a pattern, then the pellets form multiple wound tracks. The effect is roughly comparable to being struck with multiple .38-cal. or 9 mm round-nose bullets at the same time.

Reliable .410 buckshot loads are available in 2½” or 3″ shell lengths from major American manufacturers including Federal PremiumRemington and Winchester. The most common buckshot pellet size is 000 (triple-aught). These are .36-caliber (.36″) balls that weigh about 70-grains. The 2½” shells are loaded with three or four pellets while the 3″ shells are usually packed with five pellets. Because they are stacked one on top of the other in a row inside the shell (instead of in a cluster) they tend flatten out, or “pancake” as they travel through the barrel.

Shown here is a before-and-after picture of the four copper plated pellets fired into gel from a Federal Premium .410 Handgun shell with a listed velocity of 1200 f.p.s. for 224 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy for each pellet. The pellets average depth in bare gel was 20.7″ with four distinctive .36 to .38-cal. wound tracks behind each pellet.

Essentially, the only real difference in defensive performance for .410 buckshot shells, when compared to that of reduced-recoil 12-gauge buckshot loads containing 8 or 9 pellets, is the number of pellets fired. I’ve had mixed reliability results with some imported polymer-hull .410 buckshot loads. They tend to run reliably in some guns but not others. The imported shells with all-metal hulls that I’ve worked with have jammed up every handgun and long gun I’ve tested them in, badly. I had to drive the spent hulls out of the gun chambers with a hammer and a cleaning rod. My advice is to avoid them completely for self-defense purposes.

Slugs are one-piece projectiles used to extend the range of shotguns when hunting. They essentially turn a shotgun into a medium-range rifle. The only type of .410 slug I’ve gel tested so far is the Remington Express .40-cal. 1/5 oz. (87.5-gr.) rifled lead slug. It’s a nearly hollow round-nose configuration which launched at 1752 f.p.s. and hits into the gel with 596 ft.-lbs. of energy. However, as you can see from the photo here, the slug shattered on impact. The fragments only traveled between 2.5″ to 4″ into the gel. Like birdshot, this type of slug should be relegated to sporting purposes or whatchagot status.

Mixed Payload Shells
The following two 2½” shells were developed specifically for the Taurus Judge revolver. But both produced impressive gel test results when fired from an 18.5″ defensive shotgun.

Winchester’s mixed-payload PDX1 Defender fires three, pre-flattened .40-cal. copper-plated lead discs, followed by 12 pieces of BB size copper-plated lead shot, at an average muzzle velocity of 1073 f.p.s .from an 18.5″ barrel. The three disks penetrated an average depth of 27.25” with the 12 pieces of BB shot pellets penetrating between 5″ to 26.5″.

The Hornady Critical Defense Triple Threat load fires a .41-cal. 115-gr. FTX hollow-point lead slug followed by two .35-cal., .65-gr. round lead pellets with a muzzle velocity of 1116-f.p.s. When fired into the gel bock the .41-caliber FTX slug successfully expanded to .64-cal. and traveled 14.50″. But as you can see here, the slug took some damage as the two .35-cal. pellets went past it to stop at 23.5″ and 26″.  The slug’s polymer wad traveled 13.25″ into the block, effectively making it a fourth projectile.

Which Shells for Home Defense?
Here’s what all of this ammunition testing information boils down to: Loading shorter-barrel .410-bore shotguns with buckshot loads, or defense-grade mixed payload shells, turns the gun into a viable low-recoil home defense option. This gun and ammunition combination launches more projectiles per trigger pull than a handgun but does so without the punishing recoil of a 12-gauge shotgun. But remember, birdshot and slugs should be reserved for sporting purposes.

Compact .410 Bore Shotgun Options
In pursuit of an understanding of the defensive capability of .410 shells, I’ve run them through a variety of long guns. Here are a few of the shorter barrel models found in the market place today.

Single-Shot Break Action Shotguns
The hinged-barrel, single-shot shotgun is one of the most prolific .410-bore action types available. These svelte little guns are lightweight, ruggedly reliable, easy to operate and usually available at most sporting goods stores for low prices. There are several entry level variations available from manufacturers including the Hatfield Gun CompanyIver JohnsonRossi USA, and Stevens (Savage Arms).

Rossi Tuffy

These shotguns are great for training youthful shooting sports enthusiasts, small game hunting and they are favored for use as emergency survival and “trunk” guns. However, their limited ammunition capacity and slow rate of fire are not a great fit for home defense. This is strictly a whatchagot option. But if you own one, having at least a few defense-grade shells on hand is a good idea.

Stoeger Industries Double-Barrel Coach Gun
There are not too many budget-friendly traditional 2-trigger, double-barrel shotguns to choose from these days. But Stoeger Industries does offer a slim and a handy little 20″ barrel coach gun in .410 with suggested retail prices starting at $479.

Stoeger Coach Gun

We have one in the family that’s been used for everything from plinking to pheasant hunting. Like single-shots, the double barrels have a lower rate of fire and a slower reload. But double guns are reliable, easy to operate and have served in defensive roles many, many years.

Mossberg Pump-Action Youth & Security Models
Pump-action shotguns with shorter 18″ to 20″ barrels, also known as “riot guns,” have been a standard for home defense since the early to mid 20th century. They are tough, reliable and offer a quick rate of fire with some practice. Most models can also be loaded on the go because the tubular magazine port is accessible with the action closed.

Mossberg 505 Youth

Over the years Mossberg has offered more home-defense ready .410 pump-actions than any other American manufacturer. The Model 500 is chambered for 2½” and 3″ shells with a 5+1 ammunition capacity. Options have included flexible youth models, like the wood stocked 505 Youth (#57120, MSRP: $473) shown here. Youth models have shorter shoulder stocks and pump grips which have been moved closer to the receiver. This makes them a better fit for small frame shooters of all ages.

Model 500 18.5″ barrel Security configurations have been available with either synthetic shoulder stocks or pistol grips. They even offer a 590 Shockwave non-NFA firearm with a 14″ barrel. I’ve worked with these guns extensively and found them to be just as reliable and user friendly as the models chambered for larger shotgun shells. Although not all of them are currently in production, due to high demand for 12-ga. shotguns, then can still be found for sale with a bit of internet research.

Henry Lever Action .410 Shotguns
Although various companies have offered .410 lever guns over the years, Henry Repeating Arms’ .410s are among the toughest yet built. This is because they are based on the company’s all-steel .45-70 Gov’t. rifle action. This gives these shotguns an unloaded weight of 7.5 lbs., which soaks up felt recoil like a sponge.

Henry X Model

Chambered for 2½” shells only, these guns have quick, intuitive handling, a 6-round ammunition capacity and removable choke tubes. The side loading gate found on the right side of the receiver allows the magazine tube to be topped off as needed, much like that of a pump action. The company offers two wood-stocked models with either a 24″ or 19.75″ barrel. The X Model is outfitted with polymer stocks, fiber optic sights and a 19.8″ barrel. Suggested retail prices start at $1,017.

Often dismissed as ineffective for personal protection, .410 shotguns can get the job done when loaded properly.


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Now I am the 1st to admit. That I am a coward and that there are somethings. persons and guns. That I will not be around & or use & I don’t care what you think or how much money is involved!
All I know for sure is that Somebody has bigger balls than me, That’s for sure! Especially when this stud up & cranked one off with this Old Veteran!
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